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Sony RX CyberShots and CX Series Camcorders
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Old December 16th, 2013, 06:47 PM   #16
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

@ Noa -

Alpha still cameras do get firmware revisions... slowly, but does happen once in a while. You've already proven that the "setting" is variable, dependent on the state of the camera (rec/not rec), it's a matter of having access to it, and whether or not Sony can, or willm either open it to developers or change the user interface to allow access. Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed....



@Darrin -
The "top of the line, consumer" camcorders often have the most "bleeding edge" tech (due to the fast market cycle) - so they shouldn't be underestimated. That said, the "small sensor" camera, be it a P&S or a Handy cam is a RAPIDLY disappearing market... the whole V/DSLR "revolution" didn't help (but that market too is shrinking noticeably), and cell phones have taken over the vast majority of the "consumer" market for photo and video capture devices... people just aren't buying $1K+ video cams or virtually any P&S like they used to.

From experimentation with the RX100M2, it's possible to slow the shutter to 30 and come fairly close to the "lo lux" mode of a CX/PJ7xx series camera. With the non-ramping constant f/2.8, the advantage should go to the RX10 once you start to zoom, for obvious reasons.


Noa noted those advantages that the "Handycam" might still have - fully rotating/touchscreen can be "handy", the BOSS "magic eyeball" is still an amazing bit of tech, you can let one "free run" for hours, lightly supervised, and the captured images (video, as I remain unconvinced by stills from my video cameras!) will be quite acceptable.

I'm not prepared to get rid of every video camera, but am considering how and where the RX10 will be as "good or better" fit. Manual control, big plus... very usable stills, bigger plus... Clip length, battery life, potential overheat issues (still to be determined, probably not an issue), well, they "might" be obstacles, or may be "nothing" in practical use. I will say that most off my video of late has been from the RX100/RX100M2, and/or the HX300 (another underestimated little monster). The "video" cameras are languishing alongside the "big" Alpha SLT's...

If you ask "why", it's because the small light cameras are just plain easy to take along (see "cell phone" above!!). Since the results are excellent (far superior to "cell phone quality"), for casual and general "consumer type use", they make sense. And there's that "fun" factor...


For weddings/events, sometimes multi-cam is just a better way to capture the "action", and wrangling a flock of large cams without additional operators is not practical. But several small cams, carefully positioned, can give you a lot of coverage, and it's actually easy (one might even say easier!) once you've done it a couple times.
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Old December 16th, 2013, 07:03 PM   #17
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

Noa - quick question on the microvibrations - were you completely handheld or were you bracing on something? I ran into something similar with the HX300 while trying to steady on a railing at full zoom - audio in the room was transferring through the railing, and introduced camera shake the IS couldn't handle!

I'm thinking the physics of that rather robust Zeiss lens may make it vulnerable to vibrations when fully extended, even "ambient" vibration from wind or acoustical coupling? Just a preliminary guess, based on things I've seen with the HX300 at full zoom... sometimes even a little wind can shake it up a bit. Seems like the IS isn't tuned for those particular sorts of instability...
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Old December 17th, 2013, 02:22 AM   #18
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

I was completely handheld, no rig or anything, actually I see these tiny vibrations now also on wide shots :) I had the stabilisation set to standard, not the active setting as it then zooms in on the image, not sure what that does on the rx image but I know from experience that with my cx730 the image quality gets a hit in that way. It is barely noticeable but it's there, I really need to do some more testing to see what's going on.
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Old December 17th, 2013, 05:07 AM   #19
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

I'm sure it's high-frequency vibration caused by the optical stabilization system. Most of the Sony Handycams and Cybershots that I've used in the past few years seem to be affected as well. The CX500E, CX350E (1/4" Sensor), CX700E, NX70P, HX9V all of them with the PJ760VE (similar to your CX730 I guess but without the projector) being the only exception. Since the entire optical block of the PJ760/CX730 series is suspended by some kind of gimbal or gyro mechanisms as opposed to an optical stabilization unit sitting somewhere between the front and rear elements in the case of the other, older Handycam models including the RX10, the gimbal models somehow don't exhibit that symptom.

However, once I chose the Active Mode, the one which we all know the cameras employ software stabilization in combination with the optical one, the jitters always disappeared. You are right the IQ takes a small hit when you choose the Active Mode but I see it as the better alternative to stabilizing the jittery images in the NLEs such as FCP, PP or some other plug-ins. In post it is more flexible with respect to the how and how much you want to stabilize them but you're going to lose some quality anyway. I've found the algorithm Sony builds into the Active Mode very effective in most cases and the loss in IQ a small price to pay for this.

Last edited by Wacharapong Chiowanich; December 17th, 2013 at 05:15 AM. Reason: Typo corrections
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Old December 17th, 2013, 01:27 PM   #20
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

Think you are right, never seen this kind of behavior with standard stabilization on my cx730 but that one uses the magic eyeball as additional stabilization, the rx10 resolves plenty of detail to take a small resolution hit and should still match with the panasonics gh3/g6 camera's, I"ll see if I can make some time available to do some test to see the difference between both stabilization modes. I also prefer doing the stabilization in camera instead of in post as it never looks very good and it sometimes warps the image.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 03:12 PM   #21
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

if you're on the fence about an RX10, it's $937 at adorama for god knows how long. it says open box, but i just got it and it's retail, invoice even shows retail new SKU.


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Old December 20th, 2013, 03:28 PM   #22
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

Won't see those kind of bargains in Europe anytime soon, when I got my sony nex-ea50 (got it the day it was available) I was lucky to find a store that sold it at a lower introductory price for a short while, one year later now the camera is still more expensive in all Belgian and Dutch stores then what I paid for it.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 05:03 PM   #23
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

Also available from Adorama on eBay... same price, and you can get a little kickback from ebay! Yes, that will knock one off the fence...
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Old December 20th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #24
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

US always gets the best discounts and offers.

As Noa says, the EA50 is still at it's original retail price or higher in the UK also.

The RX10 is also priced at around the 1000 region.

I've seen multitudes of discounts on the EA50 in the US already ...
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Old December 20th, 2013, 06:09 PM   #25
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

Hey, can one of you guys check and see if this is NTSC, PAL switchable for me please. With that price at Adorama this is way cheaper than a shop purchase here in Aus for me.

Thanks
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Old December 20th, 2013, 06:32 PM   #26
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

Yes it is.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #27
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

Thanks Noa, great work. Cheers
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Old December 20th, 2013, 09:57 PM   #28
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

Simon -

I believe (don't quote me on it YET...) that the US models are NTSC ONLY, and the "international" models are switchable 50/60... I know that has been an early question that hasn't been confirmed yet.

Perhaps Darrin has his in hand to confirm?
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Old December 20th, 2013, 10:04 PM   #29
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

just scoured the menu, and no there's only 24 and 60, no 25/50 options
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Old December 21st, 2013, 02:34 AM   #30
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Re: Sony RX10 user experience thread

Can"t you order a EU model then? Mine does have the pal/ntsc option in the menu.
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