Vertical Smear: sounds like the worst skiing accident ever. - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony TRV950 / PDX10 Companion

Sony TRV950 / PDX10 Companion
...plus TRV900, PD100A and other Sony DV camcorders.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 13th, 2003, 11:32 AM   #16
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: norfolk Va.
Posts: 124
Most of these cam's have a verticle smeer problem to some extent or the other but I was supprised at how much they seem to differ between each cam. The 953 has the same problem as do most small HAD CCD camcorders with high pixel counts. You do get a feel for the parameters of your camcorder with use and it solves the vast majority of these problems.Even the VX2000 has a bit of a verticle smeer problem ,just not as bad as the newer(higher pixel count) models.
KennJ
__________________
KennJ
Kenn Jolemore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2003, 01:04 PM   #17
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 745
Thanks Ken, that's the sort of input I'd been hoping for.

There, Rick, you see, nothing to be frightened of, and you just might be encountering smear with your new 953. It is, as was mentioned several posts ago, rather avoidable. Do let us know how the Panny works out for you, though!
__________________
Breakthrough In Grey Room

Shawn Mielke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2003, 01:54 PM   #18
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Parkland, Florida
Posts: 105
Hey Shawn:

YES I read and took into consideration Boyd's and your e-mail especially about "avoidable" but I think for my purposes the PV953 will be ok.

It arrived today and I have been out a little working with it and have already look at the low light. There are plenty of manual controls and the only drawback is 1/60 shutter speed is the lowest it can go. There is plenty of iris control and you can step through other options quite easily.

Reports about a menu called "Gain up" greatly help the low light on the 953. I was quite impressed this afternoon looking at my kid watching TV in a dark room with only a little (and I stress little) light coming through the closed blinds and what light was behind me coming through the doorway and around a little nook.

So as I begin to put the camera through it paces I will be happy to post some things for you guys to see. I'm sure there will be some smearing, but not the line that I saw on Boyd's video, but time will tell if it can be replicated.

Thanks for all your input.
__________________
Camera: Panasonic DV953
PC: Apple Aluminum G4 Powerbook - 15 inch
Final Cut Pro 4 and other assorted goodies!
Rick Tugman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2003, 04:24 PM   #19
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
<<<-- Originally posted by Rick Tugman :Sad to hear these stories about the PDX-10 which had promise. -->>>

Well we all have our own set of expectations and priorities. The PDX-10 has some quirks to be sure. But, just returning from a shoot yesterday, I'm still very happy with mine. If I did event videography I probably wouldn't be happy with the PDX-10. But I just want to put the best possible 16:9 DV on a big screen, and I can work around the vertical smear problem.

I posted the example of vertical smear as a "worst case" for people to see, but I have plenty of nice footage, shot right into the sun, where this isn't a problem...
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2003, 04:57 PM   #20
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Parkland, Florida
Posts: 105
Very true Boyd .... and you are correct about expectations. I can't agree with you more. I had seen your photos and it was those photos that made me want to get the PDX-10 after seeing big brother (PD-150) in person. I think if I wasn't having trouble getting it (some dealers promise you and never deliver) I would have still gone with it.

I think in rethinking my situation and what I wanted from the camera (price point, family usage and the 3MP still feature), I now think (with not too much difference in quality) I have the best of both worlds for my situation. Time will truly tell that. I truly believe the smear can be avoided on the PDX-10, but like the GS100 Japanese menus did I want to deal with it being a bigger issue and possibly a little more prevelant on the PDX-10.

Since this is my first DV camera and I believe this will be a stop gap for a few years then who knows .... I'll hand it down to the kids and I'll get that Sony PDX whatever will be at that time.... but for now I think it will this will do the job maybe not as well as the PDX-10, but I'm not the operators you all are either.
__________________
Camera: Panasonic DV953
PC: Apple Aluminum G4 Powerbook - 15 inch
Final Cut Pro 4 and other assorted goodies!
Rick Tugman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2003, 09:54 PM   #21
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 745
I admire the balance in your judgment, Rick. And I'm eager to catch glimpses of your output with the 953. As I constructed my own debate recently on which cam to buy in the least amount of time, for the lower price, it boiled down to the pdx10 and the dv953. Small world. (Small selection of quality, relatively inexpensive 3ccd cams, too!)
Enjoy,
regards,
Shawn
__________________
Breakthrough In Grey Room

Shawn Mielke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2003, 10:18 PM   #22
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Parkland, Florida
Posts: 105
Thanks Shawn .... this was a long drawn out process for me. I have looked over cameras for the past 5 months. I even considered the smaller Panasonic GS70, but after seeing it and learning of the PV953 the choice was basically made for me. Then I continued searching then after seeing Boyd's pictures and seeing the PD-150 I had made the choice for the PDX-10. It was really more than I wanted to spend and when the dealers didn't deliver what they promised, I said to myself, it's not worth the extra money right now. That was really the crux of it. Your right there really wasn't anything out there except for these cameras which are below 2 grand.

I'll be happy to get something posted once I get things going and I finish a little bit of traveling I have coming up.

Best regards,

Rick.
__________________
Camera: Panasonic DV953
PC: Apple Aluminum G4 Powerbook - 15 inch
Final Cut Pro 4 and other assorted goodies!
Rick Tugman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2003, 11:06 PM   #23
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
New pdx-10 framegrabs

FWIW, here are some frames from yesterday's video shoot with the PDX-10: http://www.greenmist.com/trovatore/film/20030812

All of these have been deinterlaced by superimposing clips of the odd and even fields in FCP. Some of them have had a "silk stocking" filter applied in post, however yesterday was beautiful and foggy in NJ as this unprocessed frame shows.

Regarding low light performance, there are several examples. These were shot just after sunset on a densely overcast day... it was really dark outside! There is noticeable noise in these frames, but it sort of fits the mood we were trying to create.

Custom presets were used with WB set to daylight then tweaked slightly in some frames. Sharpness was turned to the minimum and color level was turned down two clicks. The night shots are at 1/30 sec, all others at 1/60. For the night shots I had the lens wide open with 0db gain. It would have been possible to get a pretty bright image by boosting the gain.

Now we were going for a very soft misty look (this is getting used in a slow motion sequence), so don't make too many judgements about the sharpness of the PDX-10's lens from these.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2003, 04:08 AM   #24
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Israel
Posts: 115
I'm wondering if anybody of you, guys, tried to slow down shutter speed to alleviate the problem, just like Sony recommends on p.71 of TRV950 manual:
'
ftp://ftp.ita.sel.sony.com/ccpg/dvimag/manuals/camcorders/TRV950.pdf

Does it help?
Vladimir Koifman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2003, 11:26 PM   #25
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 268
http://www.dvuser.co.kr/zboard/data/...y/IMGA0151.JPG

Hehe... There are ways to avoid smearing. On the last pic above, I created the smear intentionally. Sorry, I didn't use the tripod as always. :)

Anyway, here are the same photos "with" and "without" the smear. Manual treakings did the trick.

http://www.dvuser.co.kr/zboard/data/...c/IMGA0197.JPG

http://www.dvuser.co.kr/zboard/data/...c/IMGA0198.JPG


P.S. I don't know why, but vertical smearing from the TRV950 is, indeed, nastier than from the DV953 when shot in auto mode.
Young Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2003, 01:39 AM   #26
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Israel
Posts: 115
Young Lee, I see only a modest amount of smear on your pictures. Smear is a faint vertical line coming from the sun. I'm not sure about origin of 45 deg angled lines from the sun. My guess it's because of iris having small number of blades, probably four.
Vladimir Koifman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2003, 03:51 AM   #27
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 745
Lovely pics, Lee, smear or no :). I guess one of my main concerns with underexposing shots to get rid of smear is that it will then create noise. Unsure whether that is a valid concern.
__________________
Breakthrough In Grey Room

Shawn Mielke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2003, 04:43 AM   #28
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Belgium
Posts: 804
FYI, this is what I posted on Sept 27 2002 about vert smear...
Andre De Clercq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2003, 10:31 AM   #29
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 268
I knew you would say that. :) How about these pics? I tweaked the shutter speed, and one has the vertical line and the other doesn't. Sorry, I didn't use the tripod (my laziness). :)


http://www.dvuser.co.kr/zboard/data/...c/IMGA0194.JPG

http://www.dvuser.co.kr/zboard/data/...c/IMGA0196.JPG
Young Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2003, 12:30 PM   #30
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Israel
Posts: 115
Lee, yes the first picture has a clear vertical smear. I'm puzzeld to explain a ring around the sun. May be some kind of lens flare? As for these 45deg lines that I think come from iris, they make picture more beatiful, in my opinion.
Vladimir Koifman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony TRV950 / PDX10 Companion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:49 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network