24p cam from sony at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony VX2100 / PD170 / PDX10 Companion

Sony VX2100 / PD170 / PDX10 Companion
Topics also include Sony's TRV950, VX2000, PD150 & DSR250 family.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 4th, 2003, 07:22 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Norther VA
Posts: 163
24p cam from sony

Does anyone know any info on a 24p camera coming out from sony?
Mike Zorger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2003, 11:53 AM   #2
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Vallejo, California
Posts: 4,049
Welcome Mike

I'd guess you are making reference NOT to one of the Sony CineAlta cameras at $100,000 plus, right?

I wonder if Sony will get into that area.

Although I understand the hype, the number of mainstream users who will use 24p has to be small. How many PD150 users are realistically going to go to film? Not very many I'd guess. Most of us who use the camera would far rather have Sony work the camera over for faster handling, even lower light level capability, etc.

I certainly won't use it in my work. Most customers don't understand the difference and couldn't recognize it if they were hit between the running lights with 24p.

Even among the users of the Panasonic camera, or at least one notable group of them, shooting the freature, "American Yearbook,", used the camera at 30p, not 24p. You will be reading a lot about American Yearbook in the coming months. A short article about them just appeared in Millimeter and all the big video mags have at least a short article in the works.

American Yearbook is the first feature-length work to be shot with the Panasonic and was shot here in Solano County . . . Vallejo, Benicia, Fairfield and Vacaville.
__________________
Mike Rehmus
Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!
Mike Rehmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2003, 10:41 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Plainfield, New Jersey
Posts: 927
Well, I happen to be one of those people whom thinks that 24p is more then just ďhype.Ē I canít speak for every digital filmmaker, but Iím one of the few DV moviemakers whom puts so much quality into his work, that I like to have the OPTION of going theatrical, even if I donít land a theatrical deal. With 30p, you donít have that option, youíre locked into the NTSC DVD market, and thatís that.
Glenn Gipson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2003, 11:12 AM   #4
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Vallejo, California
Posts: 4,049
30 fps does not lock you into the NTSC DVD market. There are a lot of examples that point out that your statement is just not true. Blair Witch, Gengis Blues, Blood, Guts and High Octane, American Yearbook, and a lot of other transfers to film are examples of 30 fps video origination.

My point is that there are relatively few 24p productions out there compared to the 30p market that Sony may very well decide the 24p market size is not sufficient to warrant the design investment in mid-range cameras. They are in business to sell as many cameras as they can for the least engineering and production costs. And they lead the pack in the CineAlta cameras at the serious (high-priced) end of the camera market.

Your aspirations are great and I applaud them. But in the great scheme of camera sales, 24p requirements are but a fraction of the marketplace. I think Panasonic and JVC do these very nice but not mainstream products because they are niche products where Sony chooses not to compete.

Can I be wrong? Absolutely. 24P is a great thing to hype. For that reason alone, it is compelling. It gives a company bragging rights. Which is what Panasonic is taking advantage of now. It may very well be true that their 24p camera is a loss-leader and they produced it to get some much-needed publicity for their entire line of cameras. Who really knows but them?

I do not believe 24p would bring financial success at the level Sony requires for a major camera feature.

From a purely selfish point of view, I don't want to pay for 24p either by having my pro cameras go up in price, losing another feature I'd rather have to make my work better, or reducing the quality of the camera to pay for the 24p.
__________________
Mike Rehmus
Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!
Mike Rehmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2003, 11:50 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Plainfield, New Jersey
Posts: 927
>>Blair Witch, Gengis Blues, Blood, Guts and High Octane<<

These were not 30p projects, they were 60i projects. There has not been one 30p project released on 35mm to date. While it can be done, most transfer houses highly advise against shooting on 30p. What they do recommend, and what most people confuse 30p with, is 60i.
Glenn Gipson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2003, 12:50 PM   #6
Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 94
Mike, thanks for the link to the article, but it looks as though they may have been remiss about not shooting in 24p. ('...didn't take full advantage of camera's abilities.')

It appears they shot in 30p both because they were anticipating an exclusively NTSC 'release' and due to their lack of familiarity with their newly received DVX100.

Especially now that common NLE tools are catching up with working with 24p material (and some doing it rather seamlessly) I would definitely advocate for working this way if your are trying to both approximate a filmic look as well as have the most universal master available. From 24fps you can then choose to go to film, NTSC, PAL, 24p DVD, and the like.

My 2 cents,
Clayton
Clayton Farr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2003, 01:05 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Plainfield, New Jersey
Posts: 927
Yes, that's another issue, if you shoot 30p, you may run into problems when going into a PAL market. Everyone has to remember, 30p, is NOT 60i.
Glenn Gipson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2003, 04:23 PM   #8
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Vallejo, California
Posts: 4,049
You are right about the i vs p mistake I made. I should have said 30 frames per second, interlaced or 60i with 60i being more concise. Wow, a lot of people pay attention!


I"ve deleted the inaccurate info of my original post regarding the frame rate in which American Yearbook was taped and other info you can infer from my apology below
__________________
Mike Rehmus
Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!
Mike Rehmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2003, 05:29 PM   #9
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Vallejo, California
Posts: 4,049
Correction

Brian Ging emailed me to set me straight about in what mode they shot American Yearbook.

They shot in 24P "standard" mode, not 30 as I read in Millimeter (who has the facts wrong).

I may have inadvertently portayed Brian and his crew as disorganized and sloppy. That was not the intent nor the truth.

They were harried because of a first day (night) late start and an early closing time for the shooting location.

Brian pulled off a significant accomplishment with this film and it's not yet edited. After devoting more than 2 years of his life to the writing, planning and shooting of the work, he and the crew are to be commended.

Any pain I caused Brian or anyone in his crew is deeply regretted.
__________________
Mike Rehmus
Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!
Mike Rehmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2004, 01:07 AM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 186
I've shot over 40 commercials in 24p. Practically every series on every major network is 24p these days. The 24p market is anything but small.

Also, the independent film market is big for manufacturers. There is a reason why the XL1 revolutionized the industry, it wasn't wedding videos.

Everyone followed that trend and continues to. Sony not making a lower cost 24p camera has nothing to do with the size of the 24p market. It has to do with a strategy to keep each camera in their product line sellable. Although they will be forced to change this strategy in the future.

You can already see a sign in the upcoming XDcam with 24p capability, the only Sony camera aside from the 900 that's 24p capable. 24p when done right creates stunning results.
Max Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2004, 01:41 AM   #11
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Vallejo, California
Posts: 4,049
Max, this is a good one to let lie. Raise a new thread if you want to talk about 24 p and put it in the Open DV discussion where it will be more available to everyone since it is not a Sony-only issue.
__________________
Mike Rehmus
Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!
Mike Rehmus is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony VX2100 / PD170 / PDX10 Companion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:34 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network