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Sony XAVC PMW-F5 / F55 CineAlta
35mm CMOS Sensor / 4K Ultra-HD Camcorders


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Old October 16th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #31
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Re: The New F

It was speculation by a member on another forum. He only said it because lately I guess Sony released a bunch of full frame DSLR's.

Now your speculation is interesting. Sounds like the Canon XL2 16:9 chip all over again.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 04:03 PM   #32
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Re: The New F

The implications of my speculation are that such could likely shoot 16:9 1080HD and 4k using s35 lenses, and such a 2.35:1 mode would need a wider coverage lens. Full frame 35mm should work well via an adaptor, and maybe later purpose designed lenses for those with seep pockets.......?
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Old October 16th, 2012, 04:04 PM   #33
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Re: The New F

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Originally Posted by Chris Medico View Post
I'll toss out my guess..

My guess is it will be a camera between the F3 and the F35 in price. I don't suspect it will be a direct replacement for the F3 but a step up in ability. Most likely 4k capable with an external recorder (not 4k internal). I could see 50mb 4:2:2 internal. My thought there is why design a 4k recorder with just one camera in mind (FS700)?

I would expect if they were designing a camera needing external 4k recording that the new recorder would work with both and would couple closely into the new cameras' body. Like the SR-R4 recorder nestles up against the back of the F65.

It makes sense to have 4k at multiple price points across the line. 4k isn't ready for home consumption but has its place in productions headed for the big screen. Sharing some hardware (such as the recorder) saves some development capital and time.

With the final days of shooting on film really coming I think Sony wants to position itself as the standard in the industry for image acquisition on large screen productions.

This is strictly speculation on my part.
50Mbps is essential, but what would really cause a stir would be internal ProRes to SxS cards to get the camera competing with Alexa for episodic TV - an area where the added complexity of RAW workflows is often beaten out by the speed of ProRes 4:4:4.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #34
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Re: The New F

I had a briefing today under NDA, so can't say anything really until October 30.

Sony definitely answers many of the issues raised around the F3 while preserving the F3 within the product line. Lots of excellent improvements and I think users will find much to praise.

Ned
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Old October 16th, 2012, 04:46 PM   #35
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Re: The New F

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50Mbps is essential, but what would really cause a stir would be internal ProRes to SxS cards to get the camera competing with Alexa for episodic TV - an area where the added complexity of RAW workflows is often beaten out by the speed of ProRes 4:4:4.
I suspect that is a low probability (prores). Sony has its own high quality codec and I can't see them adopting an outside standard. It would be totally out of character for them to do such a thing in my opinion.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #36
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Re: The New F

Sony shake hands with Apple? Not bloody likely.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 09:04 PM   #37
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Re: The New F

My speculation:
It is not going to be an upgrade to the F3, but a new camcorder placed above the F3, directly competing with the C500. As Canon answered the FS100 with the C100, Sony will probably answer the C500 with the F5. Expected the 50Mbps and like the C500 externally 4K recording. Also given the recent trend it will be more competitive priced than the Canon offering. If retains the FS700 chip and the analogy between the F3 and FS100, that could possibly means the inclusion of higher frame rates for the new baby.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 10:41 PM   #38
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Re: The New F

Could be a new 4K codec and recorder?. The future will be HEVC. (Aka, h.265)

This codec which will be ratified by MPEG in Q1 of 2013. It contains specs for 2k, 4k and 8k video. Even has a 4k 3D spec.

HEVC (h.265) will be the first easily portable 4k codec that we will see. And, it will be the codec that will launch millions of new 4k TVs and cameras as well as provide 4k distribution to the home via cable, sat, blue ray 2 and web.

We know the FS700 has a firmware set for release soon. Could Sony also give us an external 4k HEVC recorder a few months before its final spec is ratified?

Could this be the very first Sony h.265 4k product?
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Old October 16th, 2012, 11:06 PM   #39
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Re: The New F

Do any of you guys think Sony will implement a full frame sensor in the F series cams.
It would be nice to have 50Mbps 422 with a selectable higher bit rate like the nano flash
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Old October 16th, 2012, 11:15 PM   #40
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Re: The New F

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Do any of you guys think Sony will implement a full frame sensor in the F series cams.
It would be nice to have 50Mbps 422 with a selectable higher bit rate like the nano flash
No. There's not much demand for it, and it makes for a smaller choice of lenses in a market that is already limited by lens cost/availability. Most of all though, Sony has yet to ever mention full frame anywhere, for any camera.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 02:13 AM   #41
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Re: The New F

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Originally Posted by Nate Weaver View Post
Most of all though, Sony has yet to ever mention full frame anywhere, for any camera.
But what about these:

Sony NEX-VG900 (Full frame camcorder)
Sony SLT-A99 (Full frame DSLR)
Sony DSC-RX1 (full frame fixed compact)

It seems the only missing item in Sonys' full frame line-up now is a video camera with pro codec and inputs/outputs.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 02:59 AM   #42
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Re: The New F

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Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
But what about these:

Sony NEX-VG900 (Full frame camcorder)
Sony SLT-A99 (Full frame DSLR)
Sony DSC-RX1 (full frame fixed compact)

It seems the only missing item in Sonys' full frame line-up now is a video camera with pro codec and inputs/outputs.
The cameras above are nothing to do with pro video. The A99 and the RX1 are stills cameras that have a video feature thrown in. The VG900 is a semi-pro camera designed to provide a conventional camcorder form factor with a video system like the currently available SLRs.
All three of them have front ends that are based on Sony's existing large volume full frame stills sensor. The methods of resolution reduction give results that fall far short of the F3's performance in terms of sampling artifacts. Any limitations of the F3's XDCAM on-board codec are easily overcome by external recorders connected to the SDI port. The compromises in the above cameras' front ends cannot be removed by any codecs.
Any progress towards a full-frame VIDEO camera with genuine professional performance would require a new sensor with resolution matched to the intended video standard, with the correct OLPF. Just like the super 35 sensor designed fro the F3 and FS100, rather than the market-led kludge of the VG10/20/30/900 using stills cameras sensors. Such a sensor would similarly not compromise low-light sensitivity as its phot-sites would inevitable be larger than those on a 24M pix stills sensor.
I feel that such a sensor would be:
a) very expensive as the world market would be quite low
and
b) some time away as there is probably a limited demand for full frame cameras.

Steve

p.s. I could be wrong, but remember, Sony is a company that only develops products that it can see a return from.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 04:48 AM   #43
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Re: The New F

Ned, after briefing, are you going to buy one?
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Old October 17th, 2012, 05:55 AM   #44
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Re: The New F

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Rhodes View Post
Do any of you guys think Sony will implement a full frame sensor in the F series cams.
It would be nice to have 50Mbps 422 with a selectable higher bit rate like the nano flash
God I hope not.
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Old October 18th, 2012, 12:34 PM   #45
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Re: The New F

Uh.. Damn.. If this is it I will be putting down some cash soon myself! :)

I however think it is a nice prank on what someone would like to see.
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