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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old April 14th, 2008, 04:56 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst View Post
Not challenging your right to vent (and it appears most of that is coming from the UK...). It's just rather a waste of bandwidth... and no doubt when the moderators return from checking out the new toys and enjoying LV, this thread will magically disappear, as it's a bit out of character for DVi...


1500GBP = 3000 USD = SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLAR PRICE DIFFERENCE, I believe roughly 50% more in USD, maybe less in the UK, that's a different price point if I ever saw one. If I'm shopping for a camera with a $5K budget, I'm not looking at $7500 cameras...

Sony has released a new camera, I'm not defending their choice to do so, they can do business as they wish, and if they release products that meet the needs out there, they will continue to do business. I'm just glad that they create good usable products. If someone else has a "better" product and I can swing it, I'll gladly buy that, so should you <wink>!

I fully expect that because of product release and marketing considerations, the camera I just bought (or the computer or TV or whatever) a couple months ago will be replaced with an "upgraded" model in less than a year (or at least one will be announced - I'm actually watching carefully for just such an announcement right now, that may cause me to drop two cams I just bought for something else... but I knew that was a possibility - I've got one other I wish there was a replacement in the works, but it didn't do well in the market, so may not be in line for replacement).

Just about all my shiny "new stuff" is obsolete, but I tend to find it better to enjoy it than worry too terribly much about the next big thing coming down the pipe... Sure it's a bugger to buy something only to find "something better" (or worse yet they just dropped the price...), but not sure it's anything to get riled up over, really... if that doesn't make sense to you, well, that's perfectly fine too. 'nuf said.
I'm not even venting Dave All I did was state my point of view and now getting criticised for it. I am annoyed about what I see as a replacement camera. OR a better version of the EX-1. Its no ones moral duty to protect Sonys interests or mine However it seems many would protect Sonys marketing decisions and deride any criticism of it. Is that how you see this? My opinion nd defence of it lowers the tone of the forum. Thats pretty sad. We ll have a right to question things. I must admit though the moral majority seem to have had a bit of a field day defending Sony Although Im sure you and others may not always feel that way in the future. Anyway good luck with your new EX-3 OR 5 Sorry about having n opinion will try to only say good things about Sony in the future.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 05:12 PM   #62
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You know, good things may come of this for all of us. We may finaly get to know if some of the issues are with the lens, the sensors or the firmware. All we needed was the EX3!

Much better to get Sony to fix the issues with existing EX1's than to mull over what could have been.

Also, EX1's will be harder to get as Sony by it's own admission has a hard time keeping up with demand for the EX-es and the 3 uses alot of the same components. That ensures a good fair market value should you trade in an EX1.

See, its all positive :)

George/

P.S. Mark, very often introductions start at the higer end to capitalize and then features 'trickle' down to the common man, like me.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 05:12 PM   #63
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On the topic of Sony hiding the goods ...

(Please pardon the random nature of these comments, I’m about to go into a rant!)

I always want one feature or another in my equipment and fortunately Sony is very good at finding what people want and then building that into their products. Every time I ever use a camera I say "I wish this camera had ..." and the next version of camera has that feature! It's great!

So before you gripe, just be happy for what you have ... your EX1 is better than my Z1U! But regardless of the technical advancements there are creative minds that could run circles around both of us with a VX1000! Having the newest piece of equipment doesn’t make you good ... being good makes you good ... so use your EX1 to make something good!

Yea yea, so maybe you would have paid the extra cash for an EX3 so you could have the interchangeable lens ... but would you have really used that feature? You do realize that a good 1/2" or prime lens is going to cost twice as much as the camera right? So if you have that kind of money to be buying those lenses than why are you complaining about having to buy the EX3?

And if you want to talk price points ... look at your batteries ... they cost what? About $100 bucks each? Upgrade to a full size camera and you can pay $600 for your batteries and your lens (which won’t come with the body) will cost you another $12,000! These small cameras are the bee’s knees in whatever configuration!

When I started my interest in media I was using single chip VHS-C cameras and editing on a 486 PC or a linear system! (Yea I know, if you’re older than me you where carving you video on stone tablets one frame at time!) That was 10-12 years ago and now we have all this awesome HD technology and stock laptops that can render 20 layers of HD video in real time ... and we can all give George Lucas a run for his money for under $15,000!

That is of course, assuming that we learn how to actually use our equipment and not just complain about it or show it off.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 05:17 PM   #64
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Since I like to distill things . . .

What it comes down to is if both the EX1 and EX3 had been available (or at least announced) at the same time, some number of people would gladly have spent a few more grand for the EX3.

IMHO they are priced far enough apart that one has to consider whether one wants to pay a few more grand for the option to have interchangeable lenses . . . and then a few more grand to get those lenses. Alas only those CURRENTLY considering the two have that option.

Those who bought the EX1 will now have to consider whether it's worth it to sell their EX1 and get the EX3. I think one problem that is peeving some is that some bought the EX1 many months ago but are FIRST getting a working version back from the Sony shop now. They've had no chance to do some business to cover some of the lose in value on the sale of the slightly used camera.

I do NOT think one can call the EX3 a replacement of the EX1. It's not like with Panasonic where they went from DVX100 to DVX100a and then a longer pause, DVX100b. Those all seemed to be fixes for issues.

Maybe I'm psychic or something but it seemed obvious to me at the time the EX1 was announced that an interchangeable lens with shoulder mount ability would be announced by NAB. It seemed plain as day to me that Sony would want BOTH options on the market ASAP. I posted as much on some threads. It seems this was less obvious to others though. I think the whole thing was even more obvious when Sony had both the Z7 and Z270 hitting the market.

I'll say it real LOUDLY (although Sony won't) but I wouldn't be surprised if you see either and/or MPEG2 4:2:2 or 2/3" chip (think competition with Panasonic and Scarlet) by next NAB in the EX series. Will you be kicking yourself if you get the EX3 in August or September when 3 to 5 months later the EX5 is announced and delivered?
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Old April 14th, 2008, 05:18 PM   #65
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I don't think losing this thread would be a bad thing at all, getting to be a real waste of bandwidth.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 05:22 PM   #66
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While I wouldn't want to lose it I think it's time for Chris to lock it.

It is an argument worth having but at this point all the "points" have been played.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 05:34 PM   #67
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I believe that waiting for NAB was simply a way to best reflect Cinealta's excitement of the product.

The most important point that everyone needs to keep in mind is that when the EX1 was announced, it *was* specifically announced as just the first of a new line. That indicates that we should anticipate incremental improvement. They didn't have to tell us that.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 05:45 PM   #68
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I agree Mike.

As to marketing, if one is coming out with an entire new line, the spacing is going to be VERY TIGHT. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if a third camera EX camera is announced within months.

Just as there's the F335 and F355, the third EX camera may be the equivalent of the PDW-700.

If SxS XDCAM is going to be competitive to P2 DVCProHD it's all got to get out there FAST. Sony probably wants to match the P2 series from bottom to top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Thomann View Post
I believe that waiting for NAB was simply a way to best reflect Cinealta's excitement of the product.

The most important point that everyone needs to keep in mind is that when the EX1 was announced, it *was* specifically announced as just the first of a new line. That indicates that we should anticipate incremental improvement. They didn't have to tell us that.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 05:59 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Craig Seeman View Post
I agree Mike.

As to marketing, if one is coming out with an entire new line, the spacing is going to be VERY TIGHT. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if a third camera EX camera is announced within months.

Just as there's the F335 and F355, the third EX camera may be the equivalent of the PDW-700.

If SxS XDCAM is going to be competitive to P2 DVCProHD it's all got to get out there FAST. Sony probably wants to match the P2 series from bottom to top.
Well to add my speculation

But is the EX A new line? Whats new about it? from the XDCAMS? Its price portabilty and fixed lens? I disgree this is a new line The EX1 was the baby brother to the XDCAM Range.

This new EX-3 is simply a better version of the EX-1 giving EX-1 users who are a new market for sony a better version of a product they wanted for years. Previously denied in favour of keeping the pro stuff for their pro lineup but with the advent of the RED upping the ante have given up a part to the indie community. My feeling is before commiting anything else to this errr range they will wait and see what Red and the market does next. One thing that is coming is a new improved XDCAM range that supercedes the EX Cameras. The next thing is if Jim Jannard doesnt succeed then Support for the EX cameras will go. My feeling is that Sony want to keep the Indie community happy and the Pro market. Keeping the RED at bay from all sides once thats achieved I think from what I have seen so far its goodbye to the EX range and the old Pro and consumer lines clearly drawn again.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 06:17 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Mark David Williams View Post
But is the EX A new line? Whats new about it? from the XDCAMS? Its price portabilty and fixed lens? I disgree this is a new line The EX1 was the baby brother to the XDCAM Range.
Sony announced that the EX1 was just the first of a new series based on the new CMOS chips to extend the XDCAM line. So "line" or "series", whatever, they both entail additional cameras to come based on the chip. I don't feel they have manipulated the market by any means.

I tend to think that because of the quick development of trends in the market, new technology needs to be introduced as soon as possible and improvements developed afterwards in order to create momentum as soon as possible.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 06:23 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Mike Thomann View Post
Sony announced that the EX1 was just the first of a new series based on the new CMOS chips to extend the XDCAM line. So "line" or "series", whatever, they both entail additional cameras to come based on the chip. I don't feel they have manipulated the market by any means.

I tend to think that because of the quick development of trends in the market, new technology needs to be introduced as soon as possible and improvements developed afterwards in order to create momentum as soon as possible.
I disagree. Consumers have for years have been kept out of pro gear. And new product ranges with slight improvements to keep consumers upgrading has been the norm. Although usually retailers are given more time to sell their stuff. Since the internet Companies like Sony can hit the market quicker and better than ever often leaving retailers with equipment no one wants and greatly discounted.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 06:32 PM   #72
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Really good point. Now I can understand why that precedent had led you to believe that something like the EX3 would never happen even in light of the announcements at the time of the EX1's release. Fortunately the EX1 won't depreciate much over the next few months, in fact the demand may even increase now that everything about the EX3 has been revealed and those that have been fence-sitting on the EX1 will likely be content to buy it now.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 06:55 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Mike Thomann View Post
Really good point. Now I can understand why that precedent had led you to believe that something like the EX3 would never happen even in light of the announcements at the time of the EX1's release. Fortunately the EX1 won't depreciate much over the next few months, in fact the demand may even increase now that everything about the EX3 has been revealed and those that have been fence-sitting on the EX1 will likely be content to buy it now.
Yep, that would be me. I placed my EX1 order today. ;)
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Old April 14th, 2008, 06:58 PM   #74
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Congratulations!
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Old April 14th, 2008, 07:28 PM   #75
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Thanks Mike. It was a little nerve-wracking making that decision given the rash of problems this camera seems to have. I'm hoping that Sony either has most of the bugs ironed out OR that they will start issuing firmware patches that WE can apply.

Wish me luck. I'm going to get it Saturday!
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