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Old May 12th, 2008, 03:34 PM   #1
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1080p and ProMist filters

Given the higher resolution of the EX1, are optical FX filters such as the Black ProMist still better than post processing effects? I don't own such a filter, but I'd like that "interview" look.
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Old May 12th, 2008, 05:15 PM   #2
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Promist filters can sometimes show the pattern of the filter at deep stops on wide lenses. Schneider just released a new line of classic softs for HD use. could be very interesting...


-Sean
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Old May 20th, 2008, 11:33 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis View Post
Given the higher resolution of the EX1, are optical FX filters such as the Black ProMist still better than post processing effects? I don't own such a filter, but I'd like that "interview" look.
There are two types of filters commonly used by industry professionals that most video users are not aware of.
The first is a diffusion filter also known as Promist or Black Frost. Promist filters are made with a particulate that while black in color still retains a reflective surface. This means that black tones will turn a milky gray color due to contamination from reflections off of the particulate.
On the other hand, Schneider Black Frost filters are similar in design but use a non-reflective particulate that does not spread light into the black tones and retains rick black levels. This is a useful filter for diffusing wrinkles or other high frequency details.

The second type of filter is a filter that effects resolution. This is our Classic Soft filter. It creates In-Focus Diffusion that reduces the resolution of the image by creating a second plane of focus with our micro lenslets which are drops of optical cement. Our new HD Classic Soft filter is designed to be used on small HDV Cameras with 1/4, 1/2, 1/3 sensors. The reason for this is that our standard Classic Soft filter has lenslets that are too large for HDV use and can be imaged (looks like you have water spots on your lens) at smaller apertures (generally f11 and higher).

Both filters are usable for interview shooting. The HD Classic Soft will create a nice soft appearance to skin and give a pleasing soft glow to highlights. The Schneider Black Frost filter will blend wrinkles and take the 'HD Edge' off of the footage and make it appear more film-like. The combination of the two is unstoppable and has been used on many major feature films and is currently the preferred look in Hollywood.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics
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Old May 20th, 2008, 11:53 AM   #4
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Thanks for the info Ryan. Are either the HD Classic Soft or Black Frost available in a "thin" screw-on version that would fit under the EX1's screw-on lens shade?
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Old May 20th, 2008, 12:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Avery View Post
There are two types of filters commonly used by industry professionals that most video users are not aware of.
The first is a diffusion filter also known as Promist or Black Frost. Promist filters are made with a particulate that while black in color still retains a reflective surface. This means that black tones will turn a milky gray color due to contamination from reflections off of the particulate.
On the other hand, Schneider Black Frost filters are similar in design but use a non-reflective particulate that does not spread light into the black tones and retains rick black levels. This is a useful filter for diffusing wrinkles or other high frequency details.
Thank you for the detailed reply, Ryan. The Schneider black filter seem more interesting for the reason you cite. I'll be shopping for that one.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 01:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Avery View Post
There are two types of filters commonly used by industry professionals that most video users are not aware of.
The first is a diffusion filter also known as Promist or Black Frost. Promist filters are made with a particulate that while black in color still retains a reflective surface. This means that black tones will turn a milky gray color due to contamination from reflections off of the particulate.
On the other hand, Schneider Black Frost filters are similar in design but use a non-reflective particulate that does not spread light into the black tones and retains rick black levels. This is a useful filter for diffusing wrinkles or other high frequency details.

The second type of filter is a filter that effects resolution. This is our Classic Soft filter. It creates In-Focus Diffusion that reduces the resolution of the image by creating a second plane of focus with our micro lenslets which are drops of optical cement. Our new HD Classic Soft filter is designed to be used on small HDV Cameras with 1/4, 1/2, 1/3 sensors. The reason for this is that our standard Classic Soft filter has lenslets that are too large for HDV use and can be imaged (looks like you have water spots on your lens) at smaller apertures (generally f11 and higher).

Both filters are usable for interview shooting. The HD Classic Soft will create a nice soft appearance to skin and give a pleasing soft glow to highlights. The Schneider Black Frost filter will blend wrinkles and take the 'HD Edge' off of the footage and make it appear more film-like. The combination of the two is unstoppable and has been used on many major feature films and is currently the preferred look in Hollywood.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Do these come in 4x5.65 for the matte box?
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Old May 21st, 2008, 04:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stevens View Post
Do these come in 4x5.65 for the matte box?
We manufacture them in many sizes. 4x4, 4x5.65, 5x5, 5.65x5.65, 6.6x6.6. 138mm round, 4.5 round, 9" round, and assorted round sizes from 37mm to 105mm.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics
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Old May 21st, 2008, 05:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira Hakuta View Post
Thanks for the info Ryan. Are either the HD Classic Soft or Black Frost available in a "thin" screw-on version that would fit under the EX1's screw-on lens shade?
Our standard rings fit under the EX1 lens hood. No need for a slim version. This is the case with our B+W brand filters, I will have to double check this information to ensure that nothing has changed or that my memory has failed me. :)

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics
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Old May 21st, 2008, 07:07 PM   #9
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Choosing most appropriate filter strength

Ryan - When perusing the Schneider Black Frost filters on the dvinfo.net sponsor websites, they offer many different filter strengths. The websites do their best to display the differences between the filter strengths but is very difficult to see the precise differences except from min to max via the web graphics. Can you provide any "general" guidance regarding the use of these filters regarding focal length and filter strength for interviews?

Using this filter on the lens without a matte box but still using the hood would be great for difficult "on the spot" interviews.

Thanks a bunch!
TG
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 09:31 AM   #10
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Avoid Lens Flare

When using any kind of diffusion/pro mist/softfx filter, take special care to shield the camera lens from extraneous light sources or open sky. Your footage will look washed out/lose contrast other wise.
Good matte box , flags, cutters can help maximize the look these filters can deliver.

Getting off my soap box, now.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 10:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Griffey View Post
Ryan - When perusing the Schneider Black Frost filters on the dvinfo.net sponsor websites, they offer many different filter strengths. The websites do their best to display the differences between the filter strengths but is very difficult to see the precise differences except from min to max via the web graphics. Can you provide any "general" guidance regarding the use of these filters regarding focal length and filter strength for interviews?

Using this filter on the lens without a matte box but still using the hood would be great for difficult "on the spot" interviews.

Thanks a bunch!
TG
Most users will use this filter in strengths of 1/8, 1/4, 1/2. I do not recommend using anything above 1/2 unless you have a very controlled lighting condition (ie, interviews in studio with a good color calibrated monitor).

Stick with the 1/4 and you should be happy with the look unless you are trying to decrease wrinkles and heavy make-up. At that point, use the 1/2.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 10:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Li View Post
When using any kind of diffusion/pro mist/softfx filter, take special care to shield the camera lens from extraneous light sources or open sky. Your footage will look washed out/lose contrast other wise.
Good matte box , flags, cutters can help maximize the look these filters can deliver.

Getting off my soap box, now.
This is very true regarding the use of the matte box. Also, realize that all of the filters mentioned diffusion, pro mist, softfx are Tiffen products and much different than the products I am talking about. Please read my previous post regarding the differences between Promist and Schneider Black Frost. The HD Classic Soft was designed to greatly reduce imaging the filter medium when pointed at light sources. HD Classic Soft uses many "micro lenslets" which are drops of optical cement that diffuse the light by creating a second plane of focus, not by spreading light around like the softfx filter. Basically this reduces the effects you are mentioning but it is still important to maintain proper shading as you suggest. Any optical product is still subject to the rules of physics regarding light and angle of incidence.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics
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