Rolling Shutter, has it affected you? - Page 3 at DVinfo.net

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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old May 20th, 2008, 04:24 AM   #31
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my 3 pence (inflation)

If i look frame by frame i can see the skew very easily but for the most part during those times the motion on screen is too fast/too blurred to really catch you out. So, whilst technically it is an issue, aethestically it's been fine so far. I was one of those very concerned before i bought the camera.

But if you're on telephoto, tracking small objects against the background where the object changes direction quickly i could see that being a problem because the skew would change from one angle to another and the background wobble.

Of course i've need to do some sky replacements and roto work from handheld footage soon, maybe i'll change my tune after some serious work....

cheers
paul
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Old May 20th, 2008, 06:00 AM   #32
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No, the rolling shutter hasn't affected me. I'm not sure that there is any point to the question. If your crime scene is illuminated by police strobes -- could be a problem. Panning? No problem. Skewed backgrounds? No problem. If you don't like some aspect of a camera, don't buy it. Get a film camera, they're really much better.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 06:35 AM   #33
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Steve, The Phantom HD does have some of the same rolling shutter problems, it's just much harder to make it happen. The D20 uses the same method where it samples the sensor in 4 quadrants into a frame buffer, this effectively hides the rolling shutter characteristics, but these cameras are in a totally different price range. The D20 is not for sale, and the Phantom retails for 20 times the cost of an EX1, without any lenses or accessories. I'd love to see a sample of the problems you're having as I don't think it's rolling shutter related.

-Sean
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Old May 20th, 2008, 07:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps View Post
Have you seen the helicopter hot in Barry Green's article?
Steve - I think Barrys article does a very good job of explaining the differences between global and rolling shutters, but all rolling shutters aren't equal. Hardly surprisingly, ones in expensive cameras are better than ones in cheap cameras. That's not to say the effects don't exist, but an effect demonstrated on one rolling shutter camera doesn't necessarily imply it will be as bad on another.

I can only second the comments about not judging via the LCD screen. Without viewing the footage on a good monitor, how can you be sure any problem isn't with the LCDs portrayal of motion?
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Old May 20th, 2008, 07:46 AM   #35
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Had a small problem yesterday with the rolling shutter. Filmed a wedding and had problems with camer flashes. Easy to fix by using a plugin to mask the shutter problem. Just a labourious task going through the footage and finding all those flashes though!
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Old May 20th, 2008, 08:06 AM   #36
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Sean, used the Phantom HD a fair bit and never had a problem, but as the exposure time will go down to 1/500,000 second, presumably the shutter must be pretty efficient!
David, I see the same effect on LCD screen, TV screen and MacBook Pro, but I do agree it would be better to be certain if looking at HD monitor or powerful FCP suite.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 08:20 AM   #37
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Seems like a lot of owners do not see this as an issue.

This is encouraging.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 08:42 AM   #38
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I have shot over 200 hours on my EX1 and the only shots that were effected were some lightning shots... Extremely happy with my EX1.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 08:49 AM   #39
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OK I've put some clips on my server from the weekend.

http://www.ingenioustv.com/clips/dx-overcrank.mov

Sorry, it's not the Eurofighter doing 300mph but a Spitfire doing around the 100 to 200 mph mark. I chose these shots as they include lots of background, the first shot even has an antenna mast in the background. These were shot at 60fps.

To me it looks fine. Feel free to make your own judgements. Thanks to Steve Connor for allowing me to post these clips.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 09:07 AM   #40
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Interesting Alister, that's pretty much the effect I've seen and it looks a bit jittery to me, look at the last shot and the background and foreground stutter rather than being totally smooth. But if 99% of the people that view the clip say it looks perfect then maybe I am going mad after all!
Thanks for posting, and sorry I'm not able to do the same.
I agree with what's been said above, in that I wouldn't advise anyone against buying this camera, but to look at it themselves and shoot some of the stuff they shoot and make their own decision, but I don't think there's any harm flagging up an issue someone's observed in order that a potential buyer can keep an eye open for it. Hopefully no-one in their right mind would spend thousands on a piece of kit either a) without seeing how it performs for themselves, or b) just based on web chit chat and here say.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 11:04 AM   #41
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Alister, thank you for posting these clips and helping out!

My impressions where different depending upon how I watched the clip.

Inside of Quicktime, the motion is stuttery, but when I put it in Edius and played it out to my production monitor, all of the stuttering went away.

Bear in mind that especially the first clip where a lot of ground was being covered, even at 60 fps, the pan speed is going faster than the framerate can handle. This is even further displayed when the footage is slowed down.

I would say judder or skew is absent from these clips from what I see here.

At full speed, these issues would not even enter the mind.

Thanks again!

Looks like flashes might be the only cryptonite to deal with.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 11:48 AM   #42
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As always you have to be careful not to confuse stutter caused by playback problems with anything real in the clip. To my eyes all the clips from the airshow look as I would expect for 60P and 25P.

Strobes, flashes and some lightning can cause a problem with partially lit frames. When I shoot lightning I use the slowest shutter I can and the vast majority of my clips are fine. I did a wedding with lot's of flashes going off and there were quite a few half exposed frames, but the client didn't notice them when he watched the video.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 02:57 PM   #43
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I've experienced rolling shutter shooting lightning at 25fps, any solutions?
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Old May 20th, 2008, 04:04 PM   #44
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2 frame SLS and 25P works well for me with lightning.
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