My First Wedding with the EX1 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 19th, 2008, 06:46 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 234
My First Wedding with the EX1

So I taped (can we still use that term now, videod maybe, memory carded?) my first wedding with the EX1 yesterday. I've had the camera since July and have put over 110 hours on it (although a lot of those hours were just of watching footage hooked to my TV).

I must say I really do like this camera. Everything was quick to access and very versatile in what I needed it for.

The groom was a videographer himself and wanted it shot in 24p. Looking back I would have shot it in 720p to get more light sensitivity but 1080 was pretty good for the dimly lit club lighting type situations last night.

Audio from the Sennheiser G2 wireless lav was fine...even though I mistaken forgot to change it to line level. I heard a problem with the audio once I miced the groom up (yes, I do wear headphones when shooting for this very reason) but was not given the time (the itenerary was pretty much thrown out the window at this point, LOL) to diagnose the problem. I put the wireless receiver's output on line level (0 AF out setting) and the camera's input was on mic so the audio was squashed...Even so the audio wasn't too bad...a lot better than what was picked up by the internal microphone (for obvious reasons).

Plus the groom didn't even want to wear a wireless to begin with because he really just wanted to make a music video out of the footage. I think the bride will be glad he did though because the chatting between the two during the ceremony was real cute.

Some things that really helped out:

- Shot transition. Getting some smooth zoom shots of the location and detail shots was EASY AS PIE. Rack focus effect? No problem.

- Setting preset white balance in-menu. I was oftentimes going between a room with dimmed lights that registered around 2100K (the limit of the camera, I think) and another room at 3000K. Without having the re-white balance I could just change my setting while shooting...and the transitioning white was shock-proof as far as I could tell.

- I ended using just one large battery (BPU-60) and the one that came with the camera. And I still had one bar of power left on each battery. I used the smaller one before the ceremony to get the detail/location shots and put the 60 in right before the ceremony. I was surprised by this but hey I'm not complaining! Yes, I did have another fully charged 60 ready to go had I needed it.

- Low light. Awesome...do I even need to repeat this? Again I was going back and forth between whether I'd use 720 or not for more sensitivity gain but in the end just used 1/32 shutter and gain +18dB when things got real bad. I think 18dB of gain looks better in 1080p vs. 1080i for some reason. The groom did not want me blasting guests with an on-camera light...plus I too prefer the "natural ambiance" to a sun gun/ENG look as well anyway.

- Yes, the flash/CMOS issue is there but to tell you the truth with this quality of image (the low noise low light, 1/2 depth of field and resolution) it doesn't bother me at all. Yes, I wish it wasn't there but if an Event DV writer who uses the V1u and has had 100s of clients hasn't had a complaint, I doubt I will.

- Ergonomics: I am wrist-strength challenged and didn't have any issues with pain at the end of the night. I do need to work on using the guides for horizontal composition but I was good for handheld shooting for pretty much the whole night.

Still shots coming soon...I may blur people's faces though.

Last edited by Adam Reuter; October 19th, 2008 at 07:19 PM.
Adam Reuter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2008, 07:57 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 234
Part 1 of the stills.

By the way, why is it that when I export from Clip Browser my stills look washed out/desaturated but look great on a TV or HD monitor?
Attached Thumbnails
My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-00.jpg   My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-01.jpg  

My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-02.jpg   My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-03.jpg  

My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-04.jpg   My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-04-2.jpg  

My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-05.jpg   My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-06.jpg  

Adam Reuter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2008, 08:01 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 234
Part 2, the conclusion.

Note the image labeled "craziness." I've never seen so many guests out in the aisle during the ceremony and it was a little bit of a pain to work around as I was supposed to go to the back but EVERYONE was standing and about 5 guests were standing/taking photos in the aisle.

In all my weddings I've never seen this happen before to this degree and the processional was even worse!
Attached Thumbnails
My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-07.jpg   My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-08.jpg  

My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-10.jpg   My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-11.jpg  

My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-12.jpg   My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-13.jpg  

My First Wedding with the EX1-10-18wedding-14.jpg   My First Wedding with the EX1-craziness.jpg  

Adam Reuter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2008, 08:41 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Posts: 33
Adam, I'd call it "shooting"...the word "videotaping" has come to mean the uncle ed quality of wedding video that I never use the word anymore.
As for the image called Craziness, have you shot many weddings? This is something I deal with on a weekly basis. You must assume that every guest will ignore your presence and think that they have the right to block your shot. Politely, but sternly make your presence known and take your position in front of them. Or, preplan to rope off the aisle so they can't get in the shot. Also, in the contract state that you are not responsible for a guest blocking your shot, and you have the right to remove anyone who is in your way. It helps!
Aside from this, thanks for posting the image, they look great. Will you be posting any footage? My main concern is low light at a reception, coming from the DSR300 series cameras. I'm just weeks away from a major upgrade of 3 ex1's and a crapload of memory, batts, and new edit system. Reading your (and everyone else's) posts, and seeing images.....man, I can't wait!

Tom.
__________________
www.gregoryfilms.com
(keep the faith....better yet, pass it on!)
Thomas Gregory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2008, 09:22 PM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,896
Adam, the low light detail in this image looks great, thanks
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...wedding-14.jpg
Steven Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2008, 12:58 AM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Gregory View Post
Adam, I'd call it "shooting"...the word "videotaping" has come to mean the uncle ed quality of wedding video that I never use the word anymore.
As for the image called Craziness, have you shot many weddings? This is something I deal with on a weekly basis. You must assume that every guest will ignore your presence and think that they have the right to block your shot. Politely, but sternly make your presence known and take your position in front of them. Or, preplan to rope off the aisle so they can't get in the shot. Also, in the contract state that you are not responsible for a guest blocking your shot, and you have the right to remove anyone who is in your way. It helps!
Aside from this, thanks for posting the image, they look great. Will you be posting any footage? My main concern is low light at a reception, coming from the DSR300 series cameras. I'm just weeks away from a major upgrade of 3 ex1's and a crapload of memory, batts, and new edit system. Reading your (and everyone else's) posts, and seeing images.....man, I can't wait!

Tom.
I've mainly shot weddings as a still photographer and have NEVER run into this. The beginning of the ceremony was chaotic. The groom and I were just walking down the stairs as the bride was coming in (no one gave us word that she had arrived/was waiting had we not gone down people may have been waiting for the groom to arrive!). So I had whitebalanced just as she was walking down the hallway and I quickly made my way up to the front of the ceremony. The officiant forgot to say, "You may be seated." so everybody just stayed standing for the entire ceremony. I may have a guest or two stick their leg out in the aisle but not actually get into the aisle all the way. I think about 6-8 people had themselves in the aisle, blocking my shot of the bride and her mother until they were about 3/4 the way down the aisle.

By the way the middle aisle was the only way up to the front as I would normally have used a side aisle. Yachts are tight spots with so many people after all!

The poor photographer didn't get a chance to get a front-facing processional shot as guests blocked her way before she had a chance. I literally just made it made it down the aisle to grab the processional as to me nothing is worse than shooting the backs of people's heads.

The photographer and I also missed the beginning of a toast because no one bothered telling us! We were upstairs eating our meal when he heard someone downstairs on a mic so we gathered our cameras as fast as possible to capture it. Oopsy...My last wedding was the complete opposite whereas the reception coordinator or DJ always let me know at least 5 minutes in advance of any traditions like cake cutting or the bouquet/garter toss. I loved that luxury. At this wedding I would have missed the cake cutting had I not been in the vicinity when they were about to do it.

Trust me, I politely moved my way up there past the crowd immediately after I got that shot. I did that as proof in case I was questioned by the couple as to why I stood at the front of the ceremony when they told me not to. I did not want to shoot the ceremony handheld but the name of the event video game is rolling with the punches. I wasn't stressed about it or anything...more just confused and hoping everyone would take their seats but the ceremony lasted I think all of 5 or so minutes (I kid you not). Looking at my camera's timecode the processional was at 6:06pm and the first kiss was at 6:10pm.

Guest interference is covered in my contract. Thanks for all your tips, Thomas! I will be posting a clip or two when I get something nicely put together. I'll post some full-res stills soon where I used 18dB and 12dB of gain. The ceremony was entirely shot at 12dB. I'm not sure how the EX1 compares to the DSR-300s but it's rated at F10 at 2000lux if that helps. That's in 1080/60i mode. 1080/24p is equivalent to ISO400, 720 = ISO500 and 1080/60i is ISO800 according to Adam Wilt.
Adam Reuter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2008, 01:08 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Malta
Posts: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Gregory View Post
My main concern is low light at a reception, coming from the DSR300 series cameras.

Tom.
Thomas, you don't need to worry. I'm used to filming with the DSR300 and have switched to the EX3 4 weeks ago. My main line is weddings which I film with the available light as much as possible (I hate on board lights). All I can say is that up till now it seems that the EX3 is more sensitive than the 300 - this doesn't make sense theoretically as it should be about half a stop less sensitive.

What I did find out however that exposure needs to be given due consideration. Whilst with the 300 I never got an overexposed shot, you have to be extra careful with the EX3. It's true that I haven't found time to to set up my preferred picture profiles and I'm using the camera in its default settings. The highlights to tend to blow out. I need to read the long sticky thread and build my own pp's.

The only real loss from the DSR-300 is the auto on board light trigger - something which is really needed in run gun situations.

Another point that I'm finding out is that my Pag light which was intended for 4:3 cameras tend to occassionally produce a hot spot since the EX is 16:9. I'm looking for a good LED light with a wide windowe but none seem to be of sufficient quality as yet (maybe the Zylight but have not yet tested it out).
Brian Cassar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2008, 01:43 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 234
Full frame low light shots, as promised.

Keep in mind these are all done in the EX1's worst sensitivity mode (1080/24p). Using 1080/60i would have gained a whole stop of light.
Attached Thumbnails
My First Wedding with the EX1-gain12db-01.jpg   My First Wedding with the EX1-gain12db-02.jpg  

My First Wedding with the EX1-gain12db-details.jpg   My First Wedding with the EX1-gain12db-topper.jpg  

My First Wedding with the EX1-gain12dbvs18db.png   My First Wedding with the EX1-gain18db-3.png  

My First Wedding with the EX1-gain18db-4.jpg   My First Wedding with the EX1-gain18db-5.jpg  

Adam Reuter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2008, 09:04 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Reuter View Post
Audio from the Sennheiser G2 wireless lav was fine...even though I mistaken forgot to change it to line level
Hi Adam,
I wonder if I'm not doing things right with MY audio. I've got the same Sennheiser set, and I've got my camera input set to mic + 48V.
I thought I'd tried Line level once, and it didn't work, but now you've got me wondering.
Is Line level the way to go with these mics? I just looked at the Sennheiser transmitter and I see the MIC/LINE input for the lav mic, but I don't see how you can change this from one to the other.
Thanks,
Malcolm
Malcolm Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2008, 09:19 AM   #10
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol UK
Posts: 1,271
Adam.
Nice shots, what picture profile did you use ?

Paul.
__________________
Round 2
Panasonic HC-X1, Vinten PB, Sennheiser G3 bits. Vegas pro 14 on i7,AMD Radeon RX480 8GB.
Paul Kellett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2008, 09:23 AM   #11
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,782
Malcolm, why are you applying +48V phantom power to mic receiver which is battery powered?

BTW there are three places where one needs to check things. Transmitter, Receiver, Input. Ideally you should be getting something "reasonable" on the camera meters with the dial at 5 to give you room to bring things up or down. Setting something "too extreme" at any stage might result in your having to "overcompensate" at another stage and that can introduce issues depending on the gear and how its overcompensating.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2008, 09:47 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 836
Craig, thank you. I'm now staring at the side of my camera: I'll leave my onboard Rode NTG-1 input in the MIC + 48V position (because it doesn't have a battery), and I'll change my Sennheiser input to... MIC (no 48V) or LINE? And then, do I have to change anything on the Sennheiser transmitter? The place where I plug in the lav mic is marked MIC/LINE, but I don't see a switch of any sort, so there's no obvious way to go from one to the other.
Sorry to be asking such basic stuff. I got all my audio gear by mail, so there wasn't someone I could check this with.
Regards,
Malcolm
Malcolm Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2008, 10:43 AM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,195
Hi Adam,

some great images there, nice to hear it went great.

One question: why do you think there would be more light gain if you shot 720p?
I didn't know there was a difference between the two (1080p versus 720p), concerning low light-performance?
Mathieu Ghekiere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2008, 11:05 AM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm Hamilton View Post
Craig, thank you. I'm now staring at the side of my camera: I'll leave my onboard Rode NTG-1 input in the MIC + 48V position (because it doesn't have a battery), and I'll change my Sennheiser input to... MIC (no 48V) or LINE? And then, do I have to change anything on the Sennheiser transmitter? The place where I plug in the lav mic is marked MIC/LINE, but I don't see a switch of any sort, so there's no obvious way to go from one to the other.
Sorry to be asking such basic stuff. I got all my audio gear by mail, so there wasn't someone I could check this with.
Regards,
Malcolm
This seems to be confusing.

There are two issues at hand.

1. 48v Phantom Power
2. Line/Mic

Condenser microphones need power. Either this comes in the form of batteries, or phantom power, but not both. Dynamic mics do not take either batteries OR 48v phantom power. They work without either. You need to understand what kind of microphone you have before you decide to send it power or not. Err on the side of caution. Start with NOT giving anything phantom power, and everything on line level if you are unsure. Then change to mic level from the connections closest to the mic and last at the camera. Not giving something 48v that needs it won't hurt. Giving 48v to something that doesn't need it could damage it. Make sense?


On the line/mic situation, a mic on it's one cannot generate enough power to provide line level output (generally). So it's generally connected to a receiving unit as MIC. When that microphone is connected to a transmitter, the transmitter is able to send higher power signals, and thus may be able to send either line or mic line levels.

There are exceptions to every rule though. Like my Sennheiser ME66 that I bring into my recorder at line level because the signal is WAY hot.

Hopefully, someone who is more familiar with your gear can come in and give specifics.

Oh, one other thing. The EX1 has an audio pad level in the camera menu. Generally, once I get nice levels coming into the camera, I go set this pad to quiet the mic down so that the background noise goes away for the most part. Some fine tuning with ths and the levels, and all is right with the world...
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2008, 11:17 AM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
This seems to be confusing.

There are two issues at hand.

1. 48v Phantom Power
2. Line/Mic

Condenser microphones need power. Either this comes in the form of batteries, or phantom power, but not both. Dynamic mics do not take either batteries OR 48v phantom power. They work without either. You need to understand what kind of microphone you have before you decide to send it power or not. Err on the side of caution. Start with NOT giving anything phantom power, and everything on line level if you are unsure. Then change to mic level from the connections closest to the mic and last at the camera. Not giving something 48v that needs it won't hurt. Giving 48v to something that doesn't need it could damage it. Make sense?


On the line/mic situation, a mic on it's one cannot generate enough power to provide line level output (generally). So it's generally connected to a receiving unit as MIC. When that microphone is connected to a transmitter, the transmitter is able to send higher power signals, and thus may be able to send either line or mic line levels.

There are exceptions to every rule though. Like my Sennheiser ME66 that I bring into my recorder at line level because the signal is WAY hot.

Hopefully, someone who is more familiar with your gear can come in and give specifics.

Oh, one other thing. The EX1 has an audio pad level in the camera menu. Generally, once I get nice levels coming into the camera, I go set this pad to quiet the mic down so that the background noise goes away for the most part. Some fine tuning with ths and the levels, and all is right with the world...

I didnt know Giving 48v to something that doesn't need it could damage it. Make sense?

And also my Sennhiser K6/ME66 is way to hot for the disco loud sound.
Anthony McErlean is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:54 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network