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Old May 3rd, 2010, 02:47 PM   #1
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Shooting Sports and Rolling Shutter

I will be shooting a few soccer matches this week with 2 EX1s and I want to minimize the effects of RS. Does anyone have tips on how to minimize RS while shooting sports?

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Old May 3rd, 2010, 03:10 PM   #2
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Have you observed RS effects in this type of shooting before?
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 03:20 PM   #3
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I have only shot basketball, which has a much smaller playing area; so, I didn't have to move the camera very quickly. However, the soccer field is much larger and the 'action' moves faster.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 03:20 PM   #4
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I've shot soccer with my EX1. I had no issues at all.

Here's some quick stuff from a camp last year (straight out of the camera)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrKU3vdhgxE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY4Mlb51ZdY
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 03:25 PM   #5
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Steve, I would have been very surprised if you had said yes

The RS problem is a non-issue for sports and most everything else except for flash bulbs and a few other isolated shooting situations. My advice is to relax, and just shoot the soccer games like you'd shoot anything else.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 03:26 PM   #6
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I have shot a ton of very fast Outdoor National Motocross footage, no issues at all with my EX1... and the speed and background were very challanging but no RS or codec issues.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 03:28 PM   #7
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Hi Perrone. Could you give me some pointers on shooting soccer with 1 or 2 EX1s? (and I might also use our Sony XR500V set to wide)

Was your shooting position elevated or ground level? I think one of the games will be ground level.

With 2 cameras, should they be on opposite sides of the field?

EDIT: shutter speed suggestion?

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Old May 3rd, 2010, 04:09 PM   #8
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Soccer? Football. the one where you play with your feet? Ha.

You should shoot from the same side of the pitch or the ball will be moving in different directions in every shot. The normal setup in any match is a wide moving camera (Camera 1) high up to the side of the middle of the pitch, and a closeup camera next to it (Camera 2).

Camera 2 operators are very highly paid, as they can recognise and frame on any player from either team and hold extreme closeup for 45 minutes at a time non-stop. Much like other sports I suppose?
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 05:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
Have you observed RS effects in this type of shooting before?
I think this depends upon how hard one is looking.

I noticed the fence and the goalpost snap back to upright as the camera stopped moving in Perrone's first clip. But maybe I am too picky?

Sure, the common folks are not supposed to notice but where do we draw the line? I realize this was a tame example of skew and completely acceptable, but to say the effect does not exist is kind of glossing over imho.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 05:41 PM   #10
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Tim,

I don't know if anyone else said it "does not exist", but I know I didn't.
I said it was a non-issue for all but a few isolated situations, and I stand by that even if you are able to see it on a goal post.

Also, there's no secret technique for avoiding it. That's just a compromise someone makes when they choose to buy a CMOS camera.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 06:03 PM   #11
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I shot soccer at ground level, handheld, and sometimes I was zoomed in all the way down.

YouTube - El Juego de la 11

Check 1:28... but please note it's 50% slow-motion (from 60p), so you have double the time to notice the RS. What's aceptable or not is up to you...

I guess you should shoot 60p, if you shoot 24p or 30p I think the RS will be much more noticable because the shutter will be -unless you change the standard 180- longer.

... at ground level you won't see anything, it depends who you're shooting for. If you want to shoot it to be seen as a regular soccer airing match you should get elevated somewhere. Ground level should only be for close-ups I guess, I mean something like a short general shot or full body shot. Elevated wide, ground close up. In "El Juego de la 11" I shot wide and close because I had only one camera, but don't shoot wide-wide with two cameras because if one wide is good enough then I don't think you will be cutting to the other one - if you intend it to look like tv matches, I insist.

And of course, don't brake the 180 rule!!
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 06:19 PM   #12
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The OP asked about minimizing the RS effects and the tone of a lot of the replies was "there are no issues with RS". I am sure the camera recorded everything just fine but that does include diagonal vertical objects on pans.

I have shot some games from the sideline and you are at a disadvantage due to the curvature of the field for water runoff. Basically you are lower than the center so I bring a ladder and put the tripod as high as it will go.

The elevated shots are what spend the most time on-screen when you watch a match on television with cuts to closeups. So depending on the purpose of your video, the wide shot tells more of the story of the game while the cloeups add more emotion.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 06:54 PM   #13
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So, should I shoot in 720/60p? The destination format will be SD so 1080p isn't mandatory.

And is there any benefit using our Sony XR500V camcorder, which would be unmanned?

What do you mean, "don't brake the 180 rule"?
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 07:14 PM   #14
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I would shoot in 720p60 unless you are going for a "film look".
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 08:12 PM   #15
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180 degree rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In this case, the action axis would go from goal to goal...

If I were you I would:

1. Set at an elevated position the main camera, always mainting wide shots... you could zoom in and out but only a little bit, make sure not to miss anything!

2. Use a monopod/good shoulder mount with the second camera for the ground closeups and give it to someone fit enough to go running around the side of the field seeking the action.

3. Put the unmanned XR00V behind one of the goals... I wouldn't leave an unmanned camera somewhere it could get hit by the ball.
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