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Old May 9th, 2010, 04:53 AM   #1
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24p ,25p or 60i Discovery

I am going to start a historical docudrama from next week on PMW EX3 with nanoflash .60 % my distribution is in PAL area but I want to approach the Discovery HD also which demands 60i..Anyone please suggest me which frame rate is best for shooting.
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Old May 9th, 2010, 06:29 AM   #2
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Shoot all your material in 60i or 30p, NTSC is compatible with PAL, but PAL is not compatible with NTSC areas.
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Old May 9th, 2010, 06:43 AM   #3
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NTSC is compatible with PAL, but PAL is not compatible with NTSC areas.

Thanks Oliver,
Then I think it will be better if I shoot in 24p which is a NTSC format.I am also told that PAL has more resolution so conversion quality loss doesent matter
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Old May 9th, 2010, 07:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver View Post
Shoot all your material in 60i or 30p, NTSC is compatible with PAL, but PAL is not compatible with NTSC areas.
Vincent,

If by the above you mean that PAL (e.g. European) DVD/BD - players and TV sets can also play NTSC content but not vice versa - I agree. However, in broadcast there is no compatibility at either side, I believe...
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Old May 9th, 2010, 11:13 AM   #5
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24P is not an NTSC format, it is simply a frame rate. NTSC and PAL are SD transmission standards. While most NTSC areas use 60i for HD and most PAL areas use 50i or 25P it is not correct to call anything that is 60i, NTSC or 50i, PAL. 50i, 60i etc are just frame rates.

I would, in this case shoot 30P or 60i. If you shoot 30P you can deliver as 60i PsF. If you need to frame rate convert, converting P is so much easier than i. Stick 30P or 60i downconverted to NTSC on a DVD and it will play globally, no frame rate conversion or pull down required, very simple. 24P is adding a layer of complexity you probably don't really need or want. What about any archive you may want to use in your Discovery show, will that be 24P or is it more likely to be 60i/30P? If you get a commission from Discovery, they will most likely require it to be 60i (30PsF).
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Old May 9th, 2010, 12:23 PM   #6
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Thanks Alister.24P option is only under NTSC on EX3 menu that why I made this wrong statement.Now as you advise I am ready to shoot 30P.I sincerely hope there is no quality loss in broadcasting this film in my local PAL area which normally takes 25P.
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Old May 9th, 2010, 01:52 PM   #7
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If your primary market is a broadcast in a PAL region and that is your source of guaranteed income, shot 25P or 50i. 25P will be easier to convert to other frame rates than 50i. If you are dealing with Discovery Europe they will want 25P or 50i.

If your primary target is Discovery USA then shoot 60i/30P.

You need to decide where your priorities lie.
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Old May 9th, 2010, 11:48 PM   #8
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Thanks

Thanks a lot Alister.I am really greatful to you.Now I am very clear.I will shoot 25P and not 24P.
Thanks
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Old May 10th, 2010, 06:57 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
24P is not an NTSC format, it is simply a frame rate. NTSC and PAL are SD transmission standards. While most NTSC areas use 60i for HD and most PAL areas use 50i or 25P it is not correct to call anything that is 60i, NTSC or 50i, PAL. 50i, 60i etc are just frame rates.

I would, in this case shoot 30P or 60i. If you shoot 30P you can deliver as 60i PsF. If you need to frame rate convert, converting P is so much easier than i. Stick 30P or 60i downconverted to NTSC on a DVD and it will play globally, no frame rate conversion or pull down required, very simple. 24P is adding a layer of complexity you probably don't really need or want. What about any archive you may want to use in your Discovery show, will that be 24P or is it more likely to be 60i/30P? If you get a commission from Discovery, they will most likely require it to be 60i (30PsF).
Alistair, can I pick your brain? For the sake of this argument, say you were shooting HD, but needed to produce a downconverted DVD mainly for PAL distribution but also with some NTSC distribution as well. What would you shoot?

Many thanks,
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Old May 10th, 2010, 07:37 AM   #10
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I'm not Alister, but if you care for my opinion - here it goes :)

I usually shoot classical music live, and I always do it in 1080/25p. For broadcast where I live it's straightforward; using 25PsF it's also natural for both SD DVD and BD.

Some of my DVDs also were sold in Japan and the US. Normally I'd just slow down the 25 fps material to get exactly 24 fps, but this wasn't an option with music production. So, I just "forcibly" generated 24p out of 25p material in Vegas - and the result was better than I expected! The picture didn't suffer much (perhaps in part due to the fact there usually is not too much movement in classical music performance), and the audio didn't suffer at all - its temp and pitch being preserved...

Just my $0.02.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 08:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
24P is not an NTSC format, it is simply a frame rate. NTSC and PAL are SD transmission standards. While most NTSC areas use 60i for HD and most PAL areas use 50i or 25P it is not correct to call anything that is 60i, NTSC or 50i, PAL. 50i, 60i etc are just frame rates.
Full marks and a team point to you Alister. You are quite correct in your statement. I made my assumptions that the output would be on DVD.

I produce all my DVDs in 30p (NTSC) which also play on PAL equipment.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 09:06 AM   #12
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Please comment on this reply to me by Mr.Crage Parks

If at all possible you should consider shooting 23.98 (with equivalent shutter angles to account for PAL powered lights), if Discovery is your primary delivery. This will allow your final delivery to be converted to PAL with a simple 4% speed up and to 59.94 with pull down.

Is there quality loss in pulldown?What should be the shutter angle?Please help.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 03:40 PM   #13
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There has been given good advice in here, but there is only one way to know for sure: contact Discovery. You will have contact them at some point anyway, so why not contacting them now?

Good luck with the project!
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Old May 12th, 2010, 01:39 AM   #14
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Steve: If you produce an NTSC DVD it will play in the majority of PAL DVD players. When I do DVD's for international distribution I do them as NTSC and the same DVD gets sold worldwide. So I would shoot 30P HD (assuming 30P is acceptable for the HD side of the production) and then produce a single NTSC DVD master. Most PAL people would not even realize they were watching an NTSC DVD.
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Old May 12th, 2010, 05:18 PM   #15
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Many thanks for your thoughts. Appreciated.
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