Missing Support Files

Mitchell Lewis · October 17th, 2010, 02:07 PM

A competitor of ours had a project taken away from them right before they were to begin editing. We are now tasked with editing the project using all our competitors footage. Our competitor shot everything on a Sony EX3 camera (same model camera that we have), but they only provided us with the MP4 files. They didn't transfer the contents of the BPAV folders!

So now I'm ready to edit in Final Cut Pro and I can't use Sony XDCAM Transfer or Final Cut Pro Log and Transfer to rewrap the files inside the BPAV folder into MOV files. There are no BPAV folders, only raw MP4 files.

Should I try importing the MP4 files into FCP and editing them? Or is there a way to rewrap them into MOV's?

As a last resort I could use Apple Compressor to transcode them into ProRes files, but that would take forever.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! :)

Robert Young · October 17th, 2010, 02:41 PM

I have no experience with FCP, but I am surprised to hear that conversion to ProRes would be so time consuming.
I routinely convert EX footage to Cineform DI for editing in CS5. The conversion is typically much faster than real time.
I would think that if you could get the files into ProRes, or other DI, you would be home free ;)

Mitchell Lewis · October 17th, 2010, 02:50 PM

Thanks Bob! :)

Now that I think about it, I could just batch process the files overnight to transcode them. It's not like I have to stare at the computer while it's transcoding. :)

But from what I understand, when XDCAM Transfer unwraps the files to MOV's it doesn't transcode them, so there's no loss of quality. Where as converting from MP4 to ProRes would recompress the files which might yield a noticable drop in video quality. Hmmmm.....might have to do some testing.

Luben Izov · October 17th, 2010, 03:43 PM

Hello Mitchel,
I am not sure if I read it or someone say it me, but try copy (do not move) the MP4 files to Sxs card and insert the card/s in your EX3. The camera would possibly ask if you would like to recover the files/data base. If so, say yes and hope for the best. Other then that ProRes is the way to go. Good luck and let us know if it works.
Cheers

Mitchell Lewis · October 17th, 2010, 03:48 PM

Hmmmm! Very interesting idea. I'll try it. Thanks Luben.

Mitchell Lewis · October 17th, 2010, 04:10 PM

Dang! It didn't work. I deleted all the files off the SxS card. Then transfered a bunch of MP4 files from my computer to the SxS card. When I inserted the card in the camera and powered it up, the camera couldn't see any of the MP4 files. The card still worked fine though. I could record to it, but the indicated capacity was reduced due to the MP4 files taking up space. I never got a "Recover Files" error message or anything.

I suppose I could create a BPAV folder and put the MP4 files inside it. Then maybe the EX3 would rebuild the necessary files. Think it's worth a try?

Craig Seeman · October 17th, 2010, 04:43 PM

File>Import the .mp4 into ClipBrowser 2.6 and it will create new BPAV.

You can buy CalibratedSoftware's XDCAM EX MP4 plugin for Final Cut Pro ($90) and they will be handled natively. No need to wrap to .mov.

Calibrated{Q} MP4-EX Import for OSX

Quote:

Calibrated{Q} MP4-EX Import for OSX is a QuickTime component for NATIVE Importing and Playback of Sony XDCAM EX MP4 Files and JVCProHD HM700/HM100 MP4 Files within Final Cut Pro 6 and 7.

Finally you can enjoy the freedom of native MP4 editing in Final Cut Pro without the need for Log and Transfer.

And if you somehow have only the MP4 file without the other corresponding files in the BPAV folder structure - don't worry, 'orphaned' MP4 files are supported too.

Mitchell Lewis · October 17th, 2010, 05:02 PM

Hi Craig! Thanks for chiming in on this. (I was hoping you would)

But unfortunately File>Import into Clip Browser 2.6 didn't work either. I got an error message that says "Failed to Import File XXX_XXXX". (X's are the file name)

I've toyed with the idea of buying Calibrated Q, but I'm overly nervous about playing with the root functions of critical applications like FCP. I guess it just sounds too good to be true. :)

Craig Seeman · October 17th, 2010, 05:19 PM

If file import in ClipBrowser 2.6 didn't work, I'm concerned. It's supposed to. Are you sure those are EX mp4 and not something they encoded?

See if they play in VLC (should play). Also test in Quicktime (should NOT play if they're EX .mp4).

Next open them in VideoSpec (free app) and maybe post what it shows there. That'll give me clue about the codec.
VideoSpec par Laurent Ettouati - Analyze your video

BTW I use CalibratedSoftware and it happily coexists. I beta tested so if there's something funny I would have bumped into it. I think the only part of Final Cut Studio it doesn't work with is Apple Color. You can even use the EX .mp4 in Compressor if you need to encode them to something else.

Mitchell Lewis · October 17th, 2010, 05:48 PM

Hmmmm..... They play fine in QuickTime 10. You can even QuickLook them (space-bar) in the Finder. QuickTime says they are MPEG-4 files. I'll download the player you recommend and analyze them.

Mitchell Lewis · October 17th, 2010, 05:55 PM

This is VERY interesting. You're right Craig. If I open a MP4 file from our camera (inside the BPAV folder) it won't play in Quicktime 10. But again, the MP4 files I received from our competition play fine in QT10.

Here's what VideoSpec says. (neat program!)

MP4 FILE FROM OUR COMPETITOR

***** First Analyzed File Results *****

*** General Parameters ***
- Name: 358_0938_01.MP4
- Container: MP4 - QuickTime
- Creation Date: 2010-09-30 10:19:15 AM
- Size: 22.1 MiB
- Duration: 0:00:15
- Bitrate: 12.3 Mbps
- Encoding Library: Undefined
- Encoding Application: Lavf52.63.0

*** Video Track Parameters ***
- Format: MPEG-4 video
- Size: 22.1 MiB (100%)
- FourCC: MP4V
- Track number(s): 0
- Bitrate: Max.: Undefined
Average: 12.3 Mbps
Min.: Undefined
- Frame rate (fps): Max.: ---
Average: 29.970
Min.: ---
- Bitrate mode: Variable
- Encoding profile: Simple@L1
- Resolution: 24 bits
- Width (Pixel number): 1920
- Height (Pixel number): 1080
- Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1:1
- Display aspect ratio: 16:9
- Chroma subsampling format: YUV420p
- TV standard: Undefined
- Interlacing: Progressive
- Encoding library: Lavc52.68.2
- Additional Parameters: BVOP: No
Quarter Pixel: No
Global Motion Compensation: No
Matrix: Default
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) ratio: 0.198

*** Audio Track(s) Parameters ***
- Format: No audio track

*** Miscellaneous ***
- Subtitle(s): No Subtitle
- Metadata: Album: Undefined
Part number: Undefined
Track name: Undefined
Track name number: Undefined
Performer: Undefined
Screenplayer/Writer: Undefined
Genre: Undefined
Encoded date: Undefined
Comment: Undefined
Album artist: Undefined
Grouping: Undefined
Copyright: Undefined

MP4 FILE FROM OUR CAMERA (from inside a BPAV folder)

***** First Analyzed File Results *****

*** General Parameters ***
- Name: EX3-1713_01.MP4
- Container: MP4 - QuickTime
- Creation Date: 2010-08-23 4:59:12 PM
- Size: 853.5 MiB
- Duration: 0:03:18
- Bitrate: 36.1 Mbps
- Encoding Library: Undefined
- Encoding Application: Undefined

*** Video Track Parameters ***
- Format: MPEG-2 Video
- Size: 817 MiB (96%)
- FourCC: MPG2
- Track number(s): 0
- Bitrate: Max.: Undefined
Average: 34.6 Mbps
Min.: Undefined
- Frame rate (fps): Max.: ---
Average: 29.970
Min.: ---
- Bitrate mode: Variable
- Encoding profile: Main@High
- Resolution: Undefined
- Width (Pixel number): 1920
- Height (Pixel number): 1080
- Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1:1
- Display aspect ratio: 16:9
- Chroma subsampling format: YUV420p
- TV standard: Component
- Interlacing: Progressive
- Encoding library: Undefined
- Additional Parameters: Matrix: Default
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) ratio: 0.557

*** Audio Track(s) Parameters ***
- Format: Uncompressed PCM
- Size: 36.3 MiB (4%)
- FourCC: twos
- Number(s) and language(s): 2: English
- Details: 16-bit, big endian, signed linear PCM
- Profile: Undefined
- Bitrate: 1 536 Kbps
- Bitrate mode: Constant
- Resolution: 16 bits
- Rate: 48.0 KHz
- Channel(s): 2 (stereo)
- Position: Undefined
- Encoding Library: Undefined
- Additional Parameters: Not available

*** Miscellaneous ***
- Subtitle(s): No Subtitle
- Metadata: Album: Undefined
Part number: Undefined
Track name: Undefined
Track name number: Undefined
Performer: Undefined
Screenplayer/Writer: Undefined
Genre: Undefined
Encoded date: UTC 2010-08-24 00:59:12
Comment: Undefined
Album artist: Undefined
Grouping: Undefined
Copyright: Undefined

Mitchell Lewis · October 17th, 2010, 05:58 PM

Wow! The file from from our camera shows that it's a MPEG-2 file. Crazy! Where as the file they sent me is MP4.

I'm interested to see what Craig has to say about this....

Craig Seeman · October 17th, 2010, 06:25 PM

Craig says use weapon of your choice and aim directly at the facility that handed you those files.

Video Codecs by FOURCC
See MP4V
and Lavf is likely encoded with ffmpeg
FFmpeg

EX creates MPEG2 files in .mp4 wrapper.
They gave you compressed MPEG4 files.

Your client should demand the masters. BPAV preferred but even just the EX mp4 files would be salvageable at master quality.

BTW you see how important VideoSpec is as a tool. It's a real riddle solver.

Mitchell Lewis · October 17th, 2010, 06:32 PM

Wow! Thanks Craig! I'm going to forward your post to our client.

I suspected that they recompressed the files. What I don't understand is why they would go to all that trouble. There are 86GB worth of files. That would take a LONG time to transcode to MP4. Stupid, considering they simply could have given us the originals.

Craig Seeman · October 17th, 2010, 06:40 PM

Malicious intent to drive you crazy trying to use the .mp4?
Because they wanted to give their (ex) client heavily compressed files as screening copies so that's all they gave them?
Because they had no idea what the client was going to use them for and wanted to give them something that was easy to play?

October 17th, 2010, 02:07 PM	#1
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Missing Support Files - HELP! (only MP4's) A competitor of ours had a project taken away from them right before they were to begin editing. We are now tasked with editing the project using all our competitors footage. Our competitor shot everything on a Sony EX3 camera (same model camera that we have), but they only provided us with the MP4 files. They didn't transfer the contents of the BPAV folders! So now I'm ready to edit in Final Cut Pro and I can't use Sony XDCAM Transfer or Final Cut Pro Log and Transfer to rewrap the files inside the BPAV folder into MOV files. There are no BPAV folders, only raw MP4 files. Should I try importing the MP4 files into FCP and editing them? Or is there a way to rewrap them into MOV's? As a last resort I could use Apple Compressor to transcode them into ProRes files, but that would take forever. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! :) __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

October 17th, 2010, 02:41 PM	#2
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	I have no experience with FCP, but I am surprised to hear that conversion to ProRes would be so time consuming. I routinely convert EX footage to Cineform DI for editing in CS5. The conversion is typically much faster than real time. I would think that if you could get the files into ProRes, or other DI, you would be home free ;) __________________ Bob

October 17th, 2010, 02:50 PM	#3
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Thanks Bob! :) Now that I think about it, I could just batch process the files overnight to transcode them. It's not like I have to stare at the computer while it's transcoding. :) But from what I understand, when XDCAM Transfer unwraps the files to MOV's it doesn't transcode them, so there's no loss of quality. Where as converting from MP4 to ProRes would recompress the files which might yield a noticable drop in video quality. Hmmmm.....might have to do some testing. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

October 17th, 2010, 03:43 PM	#4
Luben Izov Major Player Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: White Rock Posts: 254	SxS Hello Mitchel, I am not sure if I read it or someone say it me, but try copy (do not move) the MP4 files to Sxs card and insert the card/s in your EX3. The camera would possibly ask if you would like to recover the files/data base. If so, say yes and hope for the best. Other then that ProRes is the way to go. Good luck and let us know if it works. Cheers

October 17th, 2010, 03:48 PM	#5
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Hmmmm! Very interesting idea. I'll try it. Thanks Luben. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

October 17th, 2010, 04:10 PM	#6
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Dang! It didn't work. I deleted all the files off the SxS card. Then transfered a bunch of MP4 files from my computer to the SxS card. When I inserted the card in the camera and powered it up, the camera couldn't see any of the MP4 files. The card still worked fine though. I could record to it, but the indicated capacity was reduced due to the MP4 files taking up space. I never got a "Recover Files" error message or anything. I suppose I could create a BPAV folder and put the MP4 files inside it. Then maybe the EX3 would rebuild the necessary files. Think it's worth a try? __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

October 17th, 2010, 05:02 PM	#8
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Hi Craig! Thanks for chiming in on this. (I was hoping you would) But unfortunately File>Import into Clip Browser 2.6 didn't work either. I got an error message that says "Failed to Import File XXX_XXXX". (X's are the file name) I've toyed with the idea of buying Calibrated Q, but I'm overly nervous about playing with the root functions of critical applications like FCP. I guess it just sounds too good to be true. :) __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

October 17th, 2010, 05:19 PM	#9
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	If file import in ClipBrowser 2.6 didn't work, I'm concerned. It's supposed to. Are you sure those are EX mp4 and not something they encoded? See if they play in VLC (should play). Also test in Quicktime (should NOT play if they're EX .mp4). Next open them in VideoSpec (free app) and maybe post what it shows there. That'll give me clue about the codec. VideoSpec par Laurent Ettouati - Analyze your video BTW I use CalibratedSoftware and it happily coexists. I beta tested so if there's something funny I would have bumped into it. I think the only part of Final Cut Studio it doesn't work with is Apple Color. You can even use the EX .mp4 in Compressor if you need to encode them to something else.

October 17th, 2010, 05:48 PM	#10
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Hmmmm..... They play fine in QuickTime 10. You can even QuickLook them (space-bar) in the Finder. QuickTime says they are MPEG-4 files. I'll download the player you recommend and analyze them. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

October 17th, 2010, 05:55 PM	#11
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	This is VERY interesting. You're right Craig. If I open a MP4 file from our camera (inside the BPAV folder) it won't play in Quicktime 10. But again, the MP4 files I received from our competition play fine in QT10. Here's what VideoSpec says. (neat program!) MP4 FILE FROM OUR COMPETITOR *** First Analyzed File Results * * General Parameters * - Name: 358_0938_01.MP4 - Container: MP4 - QuickTime - Creation Date: 2010-09-30 10:19:15 AM - Size: 22.1 MiB - Duration: 0:00:15 - Bitrate: 12.3 Mbps - Encoding Library: Undefined - Encoding Application: Lavf52.63.0 * Video Track Parameters *** - Format: MPEG-4 video - Size: 22.1 MiB (100%) - FourCC: MP4V - Track number(s): 0 - Bitrate: Max.: Undefined Average: 12.3 Mbps Min.: Undefined - Frame rate (fps): Max.: --- Average: 29.970 Min.: --- - Bitrate mode: Variable - Encoding profile: Simple@L1 - Resolution: 24 bits - Width (Pixel number): 1920 - Height (Pixel number): 1080 - Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1:1 - Display aspect ratio: 16:9 - Chroma subsampling format: YUV420p - TV standard: Undefined - Interlacing: Progressive - Encoding library: Lavc52.68.2 - Additional Parameters: BVOP: No Quarter Pixel: No Global Motion Compensation: No Matrix: Default Bits/(PixelFrame) ratio: 0.198 Audio Track(s) Parameters * - Format: No audio track * Miscellaneous * - Subtitle(s): No Subtitle - Metadata: Album: Undefined Part number: Undefined Track name: Undefined Track name number: Undefined Performer: Undefined Screenplayer/Writer: Undefined Genre: Undefined Encoded date: Undefined Comment: Undefined Album artist: Undefined Grouping: Undefined Copyright: Undefined MP4 FILE FROM OUR CAMERA (from inside a BPAV folder) *** First Analyzed File Results * * General Parameters * - Name: EX3-1713_01.MP4 - Container: MP4 - QuickTime - Creation Date: 2010-08-23 4:59:12 PM - Size: 853.5 MiB - Duration: 0:03:18 - Bitrate: 36.1 Mbps - Encoding Library: Undefined - Encoding Application: Undefined * Video Track Parameters *** - Format: MPEG-2 Video - Size: 817 MiB (96%) - FourCC: MPG2 - Track number(s): 0 - Bitrate: Max.: Undefined Average: 34.6 Mbps Min.: Undefined - Frame rate (fps): Max.: --- Average: 29.970 Min.: --- - Bitrate mode: Variable - Encoding profile: Main@High - Resolution: Undefined - Width (Pixel number): 1920 - Height (Pixel number): 1080 - Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1:1 - Display aspect ratio: 16:9 - Chroma subsampling format: YUV420p - TV standard: Component - Interlacing: Progressive - Encoding library: Undefined - Additional Parameters: Matrix: Default Bits/(PixelFrame) ratio: 0.557 Audio Track(s) Parameters * - Format: Uncompressed PCM - Size: 36.3 MiB (4%) - FourCC: twos - Number(s) and language(s): 2: English - Details: 16-bit, big endian, signed linear PCM - Profile: Undefined - Bitrate: 1 536 Kbps - Bitrate mode: Constant - Resolution: 16 bits - Rate: 48.0 KHz - Channel(s): 2 (stereo) - Position: Undefined - Encoding Library: Undefined - Additional Parameters: Not available * Miscellaneous * - Subtitle(s): No Subtitle - Metadata: Album: Undefined Part number: Undefined Track name: Undefined Track name number: Undefined Performer: Undefined Screenplayer/Writer: Undefined Genre: Undefined Encoded date: UTC 2010-08-24 00:59:12 Comment: Undefined Album artist: Undefined Grouping: Undefined Copyright: Undefined __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

October 17th, 2010, 05:58 PM	#12
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Wow! The file from from our camera shows that it's a MPEG-2 file. Crazy! Where as the file they sent me is MP4. I'm interested to see what Craig has to say about this.... __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

October 17th, 2010, 06:25 PM	#13
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Craig says use weapon of your choice and aim directly at the facility that handed you those files. Video Codecs by FOURCC See MP4V and Lavf is likely encoded with ffmpeg FFmpeg EX creates MPEG2 files in .mp4 wrapper. They gave you compressed MPEG4 files. Your client should demand the masters. BPAV preferred but even just the EX mp4 files would be salvageable at master quality. BTW you see how important VideoSpec is as a tool. It's a real riddle solver.

October 17th, 2010, 06:32 PM	#14
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Wow! Thanks Craig! I'm going to forward your post to our client. I suspected that they recompressed the files. What I don't understand is why they would go to all that trouble. There are 86GB worth of files. That would take a LONG time to transcode to MP4. Stupid, considering they simply could have given us the originals. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

October 17th, 2010, 06:40 PM	#15
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Malicious intent to drive you crazy trying to use the .mp4? Because they wanted to give their (ex) client heavily compressed files as screening copies so that's all they gave them? Because they had no idea what the client was going to use them for and wanted to give them something that was easy to play?