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Sony XDCAM PXW-FS7 / FS5
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 10:58 AM   #1
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Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

Just mounted the Sony 18-105 on the Fs7 and I see none of the pincushioning that gave the E PZ 18-105 such thumbs down in the past.

I understand that the Fs7 corrects the 18-105 where the FS700 did not, but is the Fs7 doing this automatically? I assume that it is since, as I said above, I see no pincushioning. I just stuck the lens on the camera. Never went into the menu to change any settings.

As noted in the Newshooter review, the 18-105mm is really a nice range for run and gun on the Fs7. Even if the lens is not of the high optical quality of other E-mount and Alpha glass. It's a poor man's 19-90 Cabrio.

It would be great to have a zoom for the Fs7 in the 12-80 range, but there just isn't anything out there for less than $20k that I am aware of.

My lens dilemma now is whether to go with the Sony 16-35mm f/2.8 Alpha or a cine rehouse of the Sigma 18-35 f/2.8 for Nikon, the latter giving me a mechanical iris ring on the lens while the Sony would be potentially sluggish and / or slightly stepped electronic iris as well as fly-by-wire focus where the Sigma would be mechanical focus.

Any thoughts on the Sony 10-18mm f/4 vs the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8? There is a "Cine" version of the Tokina 11-16 in EF that has an iris ring on the lens. But I keep hearing that the Tokina 11-16 is soft and near unusable at anything but an f/11. The Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 on the Fs7 using the metabones ultra adapter is an interesting thought since the result would be a 11-16mm comparable 35mm equivalent speed-boosted to f/1.8. ( the metabones adapter would essentially negate the "crop factor" of S35. The FOV would be much wider than without the adapter. Wider than it would be with a simple EF to E mount adapter. Wider than any use of the Tokina 11-16mm on an F5. )
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 02:34 PM   #2
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

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Originally Posted by J. David Pope View Post
The Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 on the Fs7 using the metabones ultra adapter is an interesting thought since the result would be a 11-16mm comparable 35mm equivalent speed-boosted to f/1.8. ( the metabones adapter would essentially negate the "crop factor" of S35)
FWIW, the Tokina 11-16 is an APS-C/S35 lens, so there will probably be vignetting at wide angle if you put it over a speedbooster.
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 06:58 PM   #3
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

" But I keep hearing that the Tokina 11-16 is soft and near unusable at anything but an f/11."

I don't know where you've heard that. I thought it was supposed to be comparable to the other lenses. i've had no problem with it. For 18-35 the best lens out there is supposed to be the new Sigma f1.8 . i assume there is an E mount.

I plan on getting Sony 18-105 for FS7 also . How do you like the optical quality?
It has electronic correction being applied constantly by the camera - hence no pincushioning or other aberrations as I understand it. I've heard its quite good.
However the camera can't provide the correction at over 60 fps and in 4K so its strictly an HD lens.
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 11:38 PM   #4
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

"For 18-35 the best lens out there is supposed to be the new Sigma f1.8 . i assume there is an E mount." There is indeed an E-mount version of the Sigma 18-35mm but it doesn't have an iris ring on the lens. I was speaking of the Tokina 18-35 CINE EF. I left out the "Cine" part. The Cinema version of the Tokina 11-16mm is produced in EF or Micro Four Thirds mount, but not E-mount. The Cinema version, the one with an actual iris ring on the lens, sells for a pricey $1899.

Do you think the Tokina cinema 11-16mm EF would vignette with ANY EF to E-mount adapter or only with the metabones?

"I plan on getting Sony 18-105 for FS7 also . How do you like the optical quality? "

I have not examined the optical quality yet other than giving the lens a go on the camera. No pixel peeping as of yet.

I gotta admit, I really dislike the focusing on the Sony lenses. I've been riding focus for over 20 years on all sorts of zooms and I struggle greatly on the Sony glass. It's obviously designed for auto focusing. There just isn't any linear quality to the focus action and, like the zoom, it often lags behind what you want it to do. It's so "bad" that I'd almost rather shoot in auto-focus, something that I've considered anathema to being a professional videographer. FYI- I don't like focusing on Canon EF glass either. But at this early stage of experience with the Sony glass I'd have to say I prefer focusing on Canon EF lenses. Ultimately, they all suck. If you think I am being harsh go to a rental house and use a broadcast tv "ENG" zoom or the Cabrio for a few minutes and you will see what I mean.

It is a bit disheartening to purchase a just released camera and not have any glass for it under $20k that I feel is up to the task. That isn't a knock against the Fs7. It's a knock against the manner in which the entire DSLR video / S35 thing has unfolded with still photography lenses being used for video. As far as usability, I'd rather shoot on an EX3 than shoot on an F5 or Fs7 that is mated to still photography glass... be it Canon EF, Nikon FZ, or Sony Alpha / Sony E mount. At least on the EX3 I have control of focus, zoom, and iris that is close to the controls on a broadcast tv zoom. Even if the Fs7's iris control issue is cured with a software update, I just don't like iris control that isn't performed on the lens...that isn't performed by "feel" and physical movement that becomes muscle memory. Simply put, I don't like fly-by-wire.

I am hoping the Sony FE PZ 28-135mm f/4 G OSS is something like the lens on the EX3. If it is I can live with that until I make the leap into big-league zooms, either the 19-90 Cabrio or the Canon Cine-Servo 17-120mm.

On a different note, I just noticed that Canon makes a zoom lens that is a 1500mm when using it's 1.5x extender. On an s35 camera that would be the 35mm comparable equivalent of a 2085mm lens. Crazy.
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 12:11 AM   #5
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

I feel your pain . Been using an F3 for 4 years now so I'm used to it, but DSLR glass is a pain in the butt .
I have a friend who is also an old film guy and he has an FS700 with an 18-200 that he loves because of the range. He uses "push auto" instead of manual focus most of the time and swears by it. Seems like you still need to do manual adjustments though .
I'll find out soon as I just ordered an 18-200 and 18-105 for an FS7 that arrives next week . I've been using Nikon glass with the F3 and at least I have manual iris ( even with G lenses the adapters offer a manual iris.
However no one makes a nikon adapter that passes power to the lens so you cannot get Image stabilization which I want for some of my glass . Not excited about steppy iris though. I can't afford "real glass" unfortunately and the 28 - 135 should be an 18-105 to be useful. Maybe someday.
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 03:46 PM   #6
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

I did the same thing with the 18-105 and didnít notice any distortion either. I then went into the FS7 and turned ďdistortion compĒ to AUTO in the LENS menu. I even did a quick toggle to see if it made any difference and I didnít see any. Not sure what to make of it, but I like the lens a lot even tho itís only been 2 days and only tests so far.

My main target for this lens (and quite honestly, the FS7 itself) is to fly on a Ronin. This lens should be just about perfect. Small and lightweight, constant aperture and doesnít snorkel when zooming. Itís also internally stabilized, so any bumps the Ronin doesnít eliminate should be addressed by the lens.

There is extreme vignetting on my Tokina 11-16 (Nikon mount) on the wide end, but 16 looks fine via the Metabones speedbooster Ultra and will be plenty wide and useful anyway.

All of my Nikon lenses that I use on my F5 with an optitek prolock look great on the FS7 thru the Metabones.

Side note - the FS7 fits and balances just fine on the Ronin with the cable for the VF/Monitor being more than long enough to strip off of the camera and put it on the Ronin cross bar. That' really handy. I thought I might need the arm extension, but so far I don't think so. A few other issues to deal with, but nothing huge.
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 08:29 PM   #7
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

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Originally Posted by Leonard Levy View Post
Ithe 28 - 135 should be an 18-105 to be useful. Maybe someday.
What if the engineers could somehow shrink the s35 sensor to, say, around 2/3" size. Then all these lenses would have a much wider field of view and we could even use all the wonderful B4 mount broadcast zooms. Zooms with rocker control on the lens and lens doublers! Zooms with macro that focuses all the way to the front element of the lens. Zooms with a huge range that are a f/ 1.8. Imagine that! And clients / audiences would be more than happy with the images being produced!!


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Old November 23rd, 2014, 09:13 PM   #8
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

the 11-16 will not vignette with an ordinary EF or Nikon > E mount adapter. Only with speed booster because that is made for full frame lenses and 11-16 is made for APS C.

There are already adapters to blow up B4 lenses to 35mm APS-C size image which you can use on an F5 or FS7.
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 09:54 PM   #9
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

Great point on the 11-16, Leonard. Thank you.
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Old November 24th, 2014, 03:23 AM   #10
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

As far as I know, the 18-105 is only beeing electronically corrected
up to 1080p/60 but not on UHD and 4k.

Can anybody confirm this. Maybe with a still?

THX
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Old November 24th, 2014, 09:03 AM   #11
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

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Originally Posted by Leonard Levy View Post
the 11-16 will not vignette with an ordinary EF or Nikon > E mount adapter. Only with speed booster because that is made for full frame lenses and 11-16 is made for APS C.

There are already adapters to blow up B4 lenses to 35mm APS-C size image which you can use on an F5 or FS7.
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So a possible zoom lens package that features zooms with manual iris on the lens, and only zooms with manual iris on the lens, would be:

Tokina 11-16mm CINE EF ( using simple EF to E-mount adapter )-

http://www.dailycameranews.com/wp-co...-16mm-T3.0.jpg

G.L. Optics rehouse of the Sigma 18-35mm ( using PL to E-mount adapter )-

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/027...g?v=1386842023

Sony FE 28-135mm E-mount-

http://img.xatakafoto.com/2014/09/65...el28135g_d.jpg


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All have focus, zoom, and iris rings on the lens. All have focus that turns the "right way", same as broadcast zooms & Canon lenses.

The 3 zooms would provide coverage from 11mm to 135mm ( or a 35mm comparable equivalent of roughly 15mm-188mm. No exposure control on lens adapter needed. No exposure control via camera electronics needed. Everything done manually, old school. The EF adapter and PL adapter could just be left on the corresponding lenses.

There would be a "hole" in the kit from 16mm to 18mm, unless you went all out and added the Tokina 16-28mm Cine PL.
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Old November 25th, 2014, 09:54 AM   #12
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Wittbusch View Post
As far as I know, the 18-105 is only beeing electronically corrected
up to 1080p/60 but not on UHD and 4k.

Can anybody confirm this. Maybe with a still?

THX
FYI:

Hi,

tried this myself. This lens is not usable in 4k/UHD due to the
missing distortion compensation it really needs.
I mean, it is of course usable, but the distortion at the medium/long end
of the zoom ranger is really bad and therefore not usable.
If you out on the electronic distortion compensation in the FS7, the image
is really nice but only works up to HD/60p...
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Old November 29th, 2014, 08:57 PM   #13
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

I just got my FS7 yesterday and am limited in how much I can play with it as I also just had a hernia operation .
So far I've been pretty impressed with the 18-105. though. I went into it knowing the limitations and just looking for a versatile run & gun lens with IS and a decent range. I do wish the push auto focus didn't bounce around so much though and just hit its mark cleanly - is that adjustable? It would be ok if it was slower.

I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I was able to get a reasonably smooth gentle power zoom using the rocker arm on the handle after I set the level to 2. That might turn out to be very valuable. I also bought the older style (non SELP) 18-200 without a power zoom but I might order the SELP to see if I can get a decent power zoom with that as well.
My goal with those lenses is to do some of the work that I used an EX-1 for previously. The F3 was terrible for run & gun and the lenses I could afford were limited in range.
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Old December 4th, 2014, 10:37 AM   #14
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

Leonard- I am finding the Sony 18-105mm damn near impossible to focus manually. The focus throw is incredibly short and the action of the electronic focus is not always smooth or dependable.

It is possible to use the lens and possible to attain focus, but the lens is making me a worse camera operator. I am imaging an editor seeing my work and thinking I just really suck at finding focus.

You move the focus ring a fraction and the lens goes from infinity to 10ft. And everything is made worse by the lack of focus end stop. This lens just wasn't designed for manual focusing.
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Old December 4th, 2014, 05:36 PM   #15
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Re: Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

How is the zoom speed on the 18-105? I tried the 18-200 on the FS7 and it was painfully slow, even set to 8 in the zoom menu.
News Shooter reviewed the FS7 and stated that the 18-105 can be used in some 4K modes, but they didn't say which ones.
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