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Old April 26th, 2009, 12:42 AM   #31
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Sample video ...

Here's the same video in Quicktime file.

www.luontovideo.net/EF500mm-and-1.4x-sample.mov

It's a larger file and at least on my machine looks bit better than the WMV file.

To get a better idea of the image quality, download the free Cineform Neo Player from Cineform and open this file with QuickTime Player:

www.luontovideo.net/Squirrel.mov

This one is also shot with the EF 500mm/f4.0 IS L lens, IS set to off.

Personally I like very much the neutral color reproduction and natural sharpness one gets with Red One.

Last edited by Lauri Kettunen; April 26th, 2009 at 01:46 AM.
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Old May 1st, 2009, 04:50 AM   #32
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Equipments ...

Spent three days in row in a hide. Here's a photo of the equipment I had with me (except the long teles that I left in the hide and the rucksack I carried on my back)--and this is a kind of minimal package.

I'm looking for Epic-X as that will take less power and needs only two seconds to boot up. As a consequence, a lot of weight can be left out from this package.
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First impressions of RED One for wildlife shooting-kuvaustavarat.jpg  
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Old June 6th, 2009, 02:38 AM   #33
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Long lenses & audio

Here's finally something that I wanted to test and show a long time ago. This image is taken a few days ago with Red One, Birger EF mount, and EF 800mm/f5.6 L IS lens. The image is a panorama (or should I say "tilt") made of three frames grabbed from a clip.

What is rather surprising, there's hardly any color processing behind the image. The clip was opened in RedCine, color space was set to Adobe RGG, gamma curve REC.709 and then I just adjusted temperature and tint, and added only a bit of saturation. Guess the image didn't need saturation at all as the colors early in the morning when the sun had just risen are already rather vivid.

Several people have sent me email asking about audio. In brief, I use a Swedish made Telinga microphone. It's made for bird recordings and have found it a wonderful tool. Then I have a SoundDevice preamplifier and everything is recorded on line level. Adjusting the mic level from the camera menus is slow and for this reason prefer to have a preamplifier. However, the new camera audio is of professional level, so in my view, one did manage without the amplifier, if needed.
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First impressions of RED One for wildlife shooting-crane.jpg  
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Old June 6th, 2009, 02:57 AM   #34
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A classic example of how one shot can describe so much.

The sort of picture that could decorate any wall anywhere and delight passers-by.

Thank you Lauri.
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Old June 8th, 2009, 03:04 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan Marnell View Post
The sort of picture that could decorate any wall anywhere and delight passers-by.
Brendan, Thank you very much for your kind words which motivate to go on.
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Old July 29th, 2009, 04:00 PM   #36
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Dynamics

After using now for more than a year Red One, whenever I take any other video or DSLR camera in my hands, my attention focuses on the low dynamics that appears on the LCD. The same happens also when I see footages shot with videocameras or when I look at what I've shot myself with my previous videocameras.

My intention is to say nothing exact about the true dynamics of DSLRs. For, that's quite a difficult issue to take sides on based on this kind of experience. However, for some reason I do end up with more dynamics using Red One than with any other camera. Now, this might be because Red One has a raw view. It's not a real raw view, but almost, and especially together with the zebras one gets a very good idea of the highlights and consequently one becomes able to shoot properly to the right without clipping. With DSLRs it seems to be more tricky. The image in the LCD is shown after the gamma map, and thus, at least with my limited experience one quite doesn't know the actual exposure. (Does anybody know wherher the histograms in DSLRs are raw or only after the gamme map?)

Often when I'm shooting I'm with a still photographer who also assists me with my not so light equipment. Typically, when I show him frame crabs from Red One footages he says that he is not able to capture as much dynamics into his images with his DSLRs as Red One does. (We use the very same type of lenses).

Well, summing up, whatever is the true dynamics of each camera, one can well say the more the better in wildlife shooting. Second, the more direct access and control one has to the raw image, the easier it is to squeeze to the limits and get the most out of the camera.

Below is an image taken with Red One in difficult conditions of high dynamics. The outcome is so nice, that it's difficult to realize the sky tended to clip.
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First impressions of RED One for wildlife shooting-oulankajoki.jpg  
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Old July 29th, 2009, 04:40 PM   #37
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Awesome image

Dear Lauri,
Thank you for the update and great information.
The image is absolutely beautiful. I could never tell it wasn't taken with a decent DSLR.

The RED ONE sure looks like a great camera. I currently use the Sony PMW EX3 which I am very happy with. However, I hope to get the RED ONE or one of its next models in the not that far future.
I guess that working with both cameras is the way to go - the RED ONE for the wide angle shots and the EX3 for the extreme telephoto work - that could be AWESOME !!!!

I guess, weight is going to be an issue and setting up will take something like half an hour easy but the result can be magical.
I wonder how will they cut together though – any ideas/experience with cutting the RED ONE with a traditional HD video camera?

Please keep updating - this is wonderful!
Cheers mate,

Ofer

Last edited by Ofer Levy; July 29th, 2009 at 10:00 PM.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 06:55 AM   #38
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The Red is an incredible video camera, but still image captures from it are a long, long way off what a decent DSLR or film camera can produce (The Red landscape image shows very little detail, especially in the background trees and foreground grass stems when compared to film emulsion or a current full-frame DSLR such as a Nikon D3X. Even an old DSLR of very low MP would easily surpass it in quality).

However, I do understand that the 'raw preview' of the Red is a huge improvement on what is offered by most other video cameras, although it might also be argued that most of them are in a cheaper price frame than a full Red system and so in reality some corners must be shed to cut costs.

The Red system is moving closer towards DSLR full frame quality and in turn, DSLRs are moving towards the flexibility of video cameras, although both are still a long way off merging.

The Canon and Nikon bodies with video options are small add-ons and it will take some years before they can truly be taken on as a viable option for long-term serious tools for a photographer working in both fields. The stills quality from a Red is still way off what is required and the same can be said about a D90 or Mk5.

A Nikon D3x with full-frame video option and full manual control of long video-takes without filling up the memory cards is a dream option for me, but I don't see that happening in the near future.

As someone who makes a living from a mixture of stills photos and movies, it would be wonderful to have a single system that allows me to do both jobs, and it does look like HD DV & DSLR companies are moving in that direction, but it is still a long way off.

In lower cost HDV systems the LCD images are as most of us know, very low rez and difficult to focus correctly. The Red (and a few similar priced systems) do offer huge advantages in this respect.

There are a lot of teething problems still being overcome with the Red system as a whole, although it does produce outstanding footage. But, that being said, so does the EX3 and H1 at a fraction of the price.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 09:14 AM   #39
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Have you ever actually shot nature and outdoors still grabs from a RED camera, Tony? What are you basing these assumptions on? You can pull magnificent stills from a RED camera.

The primary issue in using a RED camera to shoot nature and outdoors imagery is not image quality, it is shutter speed. You can create great video footage or great stills, but it is more challenging to find a subject that allows you to do both at the same time.

Annie Leibovitz, Steven Meisel, Greg Williams, Alexx Henry and other top portrait photographers are shooting RED cameras for covers of Vanity Fair, Vogue Italia, Esquire, W, Madame - so it is pretty obvious that the camera is up to the demands of dSLR work --

I don't think that the convergence of these technologies is that far off - we'll see a lot changing in the next year. Probably in the next six months, actually....

P.S. pretty shot, Lauri! thanks for sharing it.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 11:13 AM   #40
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No, Meryem, I do not shoot or use a Red for stills wildlife photography and don't know anyone who actually seriously does for professional ongoing work unless it is used in the mode as a kind of back-up to the main stills camera system.

It is true that some of the Nick Metcalf images published on the inside pages of the VF magazine of Bruce Willis and of other 'stars' originate from the Red, and even though he used the camera at full 4K instead of the normal 2K video footage, the quality is still far too low for most outdoor photographers to use it as their main stills camera. A decent DSLR or film camera with decent lenses would blow it out of the sky, so I'm not likely to use it for serious outdoor photography in the near future.

However, disregarding stills from the Red, the movie footage is in a different league. I was of course not pulling down the Red camera itself, and certainly not Lauri's wonderful video work. I was just stating that, in my honest view, video cameras are still a long way from what quality stills cameras can produce and visa versa. Yes, the gap is closing, but I certainly don't see it happening in 6-months; more like years.

I also don't think that Lauri was actually implying that the Red would match a stills camera for serious work. Only that the Red was providing Lauri with a superior raw view and more dynamic footage than with any other camera.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 11:51 AM   #41
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certainly no one would use a RED as a replacement for a stills camera, right now - the ridiculous amount of weight alone, by comparison, is off-putting. But it will certainly do in a pinch - there are many opportunities that are lost for stills acquisition, because you have to make a choice between stills and videos -- especially when you are dealing with the "weight carried" versus "distance traveled" conundrum of outdoors shooting. And RED ONE currently does nothing to mitigate this issue, as Lauri's sled illustrates...

..so instead of pulling two heavy loads of gear, you get to pull one really weighty load of gear! not a big enhancement. yet.

but a 6K SCARLET, due for release in the fall, definitely will close that gap dramatically -- hence my six months comment -- and if RED comes through with their intent to make an easily interchangeable lens mount that will allow me to use my Canon lenses, without third-party intervention, and swap those out with PL lenses on a full frame 6K SCARLET, it will be game over.

These are "ifs," granted, but I think the company has delivered enough on their intentions, to date, to be trusted that, if they say they can, they will.

You still currently can pull far better stills from a RED than pretty much any other video (not still) camera - if you're talking about just stills, the EX-3 and the H1, at 1080 are no match for a 4K RED. The video footage from an EX3 can be matched pretty closely at 1080p (I've done it...H1 can't match it unless it is tethered, although the KiPro may have already changed that...), but if you're talking about generating TIFFs from video cameras, it is already no contest.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 01:18 PM   #42
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Yes, Meryem, I'd agree with most of the things you say in your last post. Probably the biggest advantage of all in pulling a single high resolution image from a long section of video footage, is when it captures a subject or action that is unique or unrepeatable. And in wildlife or rarely seen subjects this often is the case.
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Old July 31st, 2009, 01:12 PM   #43
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Ofer, Tony, Meryem, Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and for the compliments.

Let me put it this way --and I think Meryem will agree with me-- the frame grabs from Red One are simply amazing. Often as good as those from Canon or Nikon DSLRs, and thanks to the dynamics of the camera sometimes they are even better. But, also, in some cases not as good as Tony suggests.

The case when the stills from Red One do not meet the quality of Canon or Nikon DSLRs are when there are a lot of details in the image. Such as shots taken with wide angle lenses. And in my understanding the reason for this is very simple; The Red One images are compressed. If I remember right the ratio is 1:5.

But, if the background of the image is out of focus, then the compression is not visible and the Red One stills are in my view just excellent. In fact, it took me some time to realize how good the Red One stills really are. It was beyond my imagination that they could compete qualitywise in any situation with Canon/Nikon DSLRs.

In practice, the only limitation is that I shoot most of the time 25fps and 1/50s. This particular shutter speed is not that exciting for stills and consequently single frames of moving objects typically do not appear as interesting still images. Of course, if I really wanted stills, I could set some other shutter speed.

Epic-X and Scarlet will be rather interesting because they will have ALSO the still image mode. This means, I think, the still images will not be compressed. Furthermore, we also know the new Mysterium-X sensor will have more dynamics (1 to 1,5 stops) than the Red One Mysterium sensor. At that point, which is targeted to this fall, or should I say before that point, I'm going to sell away the DSLR I have. I'm afraid it will become useless. And, I'm not surprised if Meryem feels the same way.
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Old July 31st, 2009, 04:54 PM   #44
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I sort of started writing this exact thing in one of my posts but figured the explanation was lengthier than I wanted to go into...but pretty much, I agree, RED can't compete with still cams at producing landscape or wide angle views - but closer up, with shallow DOF and a nice bokeh, the difference is much less apparent.

The one thing that will cause me to sell off my still camera bodies will be if RED can design an easily interchangeable lens mount, that will allow me to toggle back and forth between shooting styles. As it stands right now, I cancelled my third-party Canon mount -- switching mounts, while it can be accomplished in about half an hour or so, still seems like too much hassle, and definitely not something to do in the field -- studio only.
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Old July 31st, 2009, 08:36 PM   #45
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What exactly is a RED camera???
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