The Ethics of Wildlife Shooting

[Rodney Compton]

Hi Brendan

I knew you would reveal your true identity.

My warmest regards

Rod C

For Meryem: What use eyes in a world with no vision.

[J. Stephen McDonald]

Originally Posted by Alan Craven

Brendan, it sounds as though an Irish education was pretty much like a Yorkshire education! Part of the control I was subject to was a ban on using a lengthy list of words, of which nice, like and get, were just three.

I rarely issue a spoken sentence that doesn't include at least one of those words. But yet, when I do, I feel a faint awareness of a violation of the same ingrained prohibitions, which most people raised in our time knew too well. Just like the social and sexual revolution that spread through the youth of the world in the 1960s, there was a common sort of restriction and repression levied on most of us, who came earlier. It was fundamentally the same, regardless of our nationality and the specific things involved. And how grateful I am for those unbending rules and deprivation! Ordinary activities that young people today take for granted and which may even bore them, are to me supreme and joyful indulgences. Our lives have a unique element, which those from before or after don't share: We have one foot in the old world and one in the new. We knew the scarcity of personal freedoms as children and teenagers, but when things changed, we were still young enough to dive right in and enjoy a bit of them. But even now, it doesn't take much to please me and the cost of my entertainments is small. That's why I can spend so much on my video toys, while many half my age waste their assets on non-productive status symbols. We did without so many things, both material and otherwise, that a little bit goes a long way with us.

I just brought things back on topic, giving the background on why it's so much better to spend the afternoon hiking through a wildlife area with a camcorder, than stuffing yourself in an expensive restaurant. Which is just what I'll be doing immediately after hitting the Submit button.

[Meryem Ersoz]

just found this:

http://www.planetinfocus.org/2005_film_bird_people.php

it's a link to a film, called "Birdpeople," currently in film festival circulation, about the ethics of the imprinting technique used in "Winged Migration"--see, our discussion is on the cutting edge.....

[Meryem Ersoz]

oh, and how about this...this same toronto film festival is hosting a panel discussion on, get this, "the ethics of wildlife filmmaking":

http://www.planetinfocus.org/2005_film_panel_ethics.php

field trip, anyone?

[Brendan Marnell]

I was sad to see that you've already been tripping around snowfields Meryem and I am not sure I'd be up to a field trip with you, but what the heck ... this could be my last chance ... count me in; Jez, we can work out the ethics afterwards; doing this trip in 2005 will be our first hurdle, but that's a mere aside ... I'm having flashbacks all the time. Then there's location .. did you have any particular glacier in mind ... stop this marnell and get back to your
ourmedia tapping ... but be warned, young lady, I'll be back for details ...

[Meryem Ersoz]

not that kind of field trip, you nut, this is the kind that involves lots of unique films, libations, and brain candy. the only possibilities for injury are to ego....

[J. Stephen McDonald]

Originally Posted by Meryem Ersoz

oh, and how about this...this same toronto film festival is hosting a panel discussion on, get this, "the ethics of wildlife filmmaking":

http://www.planetinfocus.org/2005_film_panel_ethics.php

field trip, anyone?

It's obvious that the organizers of these things are lurkers in our forum and not likely giving us any attributions, either.

By the way, it's 63 degrees in Eugene today, all the trees are in full blossom, hummingbirds are swarming around my camelias, a thousand geese and some cranes just circled my yard and I extend these tidings to those still encrusted in ice, as a beacon of hope.

[Sean McHenry]

And the road takes a strange turn to a town David Lynch might want to visit...

"I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied - learn to swim"
Tool

I fall back to a bumper sticker I saw a few years back which pokes fun at the situation. "If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouuldn't have made them out of meat." Yeah yeah, I feel the flames. Now step away from the keyboard and nobody gets hurt.

But seriously folks. Humans aren't perfect. If we were we wouldn't have reality TV, Montel and Geraldo, MTV would actually play music videos and politicians would actually be on our side, etc., etc. We screw up pretty much everything and it will only be a matter of time before we kill of some microbe or tiny fish in some unknown river that starts a huge chain reaction that dooms the entire planet. I doubt it will happen in the my future, but I think it will happen, if we don't get stuck in a Nuclear Winter, or release some form of Ebola (accidentally?) or the whole Prion thing flares up (look that up, it's scary).

Small boys by nature crash toy cars, stomp on toys and want to generally break things. It's built in to at least half the species. Why should we think that we can make this planet work? Greed will eventually do us in. That and the quest for absolute power.

All personal opinion and I'll refrain from making further comment on all that, not germain to the topic really. I still like that bumper sticker however.

Sean McHenry

[Michael Devlin]

Some of us (myself included) are extremely comfortable with our position at the top of the food chain. Bringing this back to videography, most of our projects to date have involved shooting sportfishing and big game hunting. You can see a few small examples at our website

http://www.redhawk-development.com/

It is hard to beat fresh caught Mahi Mahi cooked on the boat after a full day of fishing (or Halibut or Salmon or whatever, depending on whether we are fishing in Prince William Sound or the Sea of Cortez). Some would argue (not I) that those who have not lived off the land have lost touch with nature and their humanity.

I have spent enough time outdoors to be completely cured of any romantic view of some idyllic nature. Part of the beauty of nature is the brutal competition and often outright cruelty. Have you ever seen a pod of Orca's in Ressurection Bay (aptly named) playing catch with a seal pup until they are bored, and then just leave the corpse (or tossing sea otters sky high just for fun)? I have. Or cleaned the parasites off fresh-killed game? Or on a different time scale (decades and centuries) watched Black Oak trees entwined with Douglas Fir trying to grow fast enough to compete for sunlight, but unable to keep up with the faster growing conifers. It is the lion's claw that shapes the gazelle's leg. Man is part of nature, and I at least am very comfortable with our role. I worry more that the city dwellers grow soft and afraid to eat meat...

I better not say anything more or Chris will revoke all my posting priveleges. I apologize in advance Chris, since I told you I would try not to respond to this kind of thing (I tried...).

[Pete Bauer]

I agree with Mike that we should (read: MUST) let this aspect of the conversation go. There's an entire spectrum of innumerable strongly held opinions on animal rights. We all have our opinions on the issue and none of us is going to change anyone else's mind. And it is a political topic that does not belong on DVinfo.

The title topic is close enough to the edge here and was cause for the moderators to be especially watchful of the thread from the get-go. If the thread stays political, it'll be shot dead and eaten raw.

PS: My wife double-dog dared me to actually post that last sentence. So there it is.

[Meryem Ersoz]

agh. hey guys, don't let this conversation devolve into exactly what it is NOT supposed to be...if anyone has anything to contribute about the technical and creative aspects of wildlife VIDEOGRAPHY, let's hear from that camp. quick, so we can get this thread back on track.

quick, look at the birdie!

http://www.ourmedia.org/node/153752

muuuuuuch better....

[Chris Hurd]

Believe it or not, I'm actually NOT stepping in here to close this thread, but rather to thank Meryem and everyone involved for keeping such a spirited debate on a relatively even and mostly well-behaved keel. I have critics out there who like to say that I'm afraid of hosting a "real" debate on DV Info Net; here's an instance where I can certainly indicate one and, even better, point out that it really didn't go to hell in a handbag. Well done. Slowly backing away... well done. Move along. Good job. Run along now.

[Pete Bauer]

As Michael, Chris (who owns this site), Meryem, and myself have all clearly indicated, this is not a place for political views to be expressed. Although it isn't strictly true that nobody on the forum shoots wildlife with weapons, that is NOT what this thread is about. It is about videographic "shooting."

Now, enough said.

[Chris Hurd]

Political grand-standing has been hunted down, shot with a bow, cleaned and eaten raw. We now return this thread back to Meryem's capable hands.

[Brendan Marnell]

Thank you Meryem for the pleasure of enjoying your kestrel picture.

In full size the detail is beautifully revealed and then the light in his eye discloses serious intention ... what do we say? yeah what do we say? and why do we say those things? why do we pretend to be gods and to airbrush the fact that we too are (among other things) part of nature's food chain ... Your kestrel shows me how basic instinct (unlike instincts to self-indulge, self-abuse, self-aggrandise etc) can bring out the best in natural design and nudge me too however slowly towards self-awareness ... The quality of the shot is another matter ... I have yardage of griffon vultures gliding by even at eye level but hardly a glimpse of an eye-ball anywhere ... what a difference it makes!

May I indulge myself in the details of the shot please? Did you take it? Where? What equipment? Handheld? If not, did you know the location to be a favourite perch?