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Video Monitors and Media Players for field or studio use (all display technologies).


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Old November 10th, 2007, 08:29 PM   #1
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LCD monitor for color correcting and field work

Iam looking for a good lcd monitor for color correcting and field work. I been thinking about Jvc DTV20L1U 20. But iam not sure. Just so you now iam using jvc gyhd100 for shooting. I also wonder if its possible to plug the jvc DTV20L1U 20 directly to the graphic card and still have good color correcting ?

Is there any better monitors out there for the same monney or is this the best i can get.

Thanks

Last edited by Jonas Wessman; November 11th, 2007 at 04:27 AM.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 06:29 AM   #2
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samsung 225mw has all inputs (components, hdmi, DVI, VGA).
it is a 22" ,a bit big but great for HD monitoring.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 06:52 AM   #3
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but is it good for color correcting hdv footage ?
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Old November 11th, 2007, 07:04 AM   #4
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once calibrated it should be ok
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Old November 12th, 2007, 10:02 AM   #5
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You also may want to take a look at the Sony LMD-2030W monitor as well.
It has everything that you would need as well.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...eries_20_.html

I'm debating between this monitor and a Sharp LCD LC-20D42U Aquos TV.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...creen_LCD.html

Both have good blacks which is the most important for me.
I have hard that the Sony has excellent blacks for an LCD monitor.

I'm leaning LCD, because that's what most of my footage is going to end up being viewed on anyway.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 02:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
I have hard that the Sony has excellent blacks for an LCD monitor.
I've never heard that... most people complain about the blacks being too high/bright compared to a CRT.

2- That particular Sony panel doesn't have at least 1920x1080 pixels. I wouldn't bother with it since you don't get full resolution *and* you will be seeing scaling artifacts that aren't there in your footage.

3- The ecinemasys panels might also be worth looking at if you can get a demo of them.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 08:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Chan View Post
I've never heard that... most people complain about the blacks being too high/bright compared to a CRT.

2- That particular Sony panel doesn't have at least 1920x1080 pixels. I wouldn't bother with it since you don't get full resolution *and* you will be seeing scaling artifacts that aren't there in your footage.

3- The ecinemasys panels might also be worth looking at if you can get a demo of them.
Any idea on the pricing for the eCinema series (mainly the FX) displays?

I realize that CRT monitors will yield better blacks than LCD displays. I curently use an external CRT production monitor to preview and color correct my SD footage. But need a good affordable option to preview my HD footage along with my Black Magic Intensity Pro card (preferably HDMI).

My main concern with using an external monitor will be for color correcting only. Space is an issue in my work area so a 35-40 monitor for previewing (to go along with my 24' Dell monitor) is out of the question.
I prefer keeping the display size to 20' or so, but will most likely have to move to a 24' to get 1920 x 1080 resolution. I don't want to get another Dell monitor, as the blacks won't be good enough. So I'm looking for another solution that gives me good (they don't have to be great) blacks.

BTW, I mentioned the Sharp LC-20D42U, because of it's 1200:1 Contrast Ratio. So I figured that the color levels would have better seperation, especially in the blacks.

Would a Matrox MXO do the trick, or should my BM IntensityPro card (via HDMI) be sufficient?

I do event videography, so most, if not all of my footage will be viewed on conusmer LCD/Plasma displays. So most people won't be viewing proper blacks anyway. Hell, I'd be happy if their sets were properly calibrated, even for color.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 08:48 AM   #8
 
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1-don't concern yourself with the contrast ratio once you get over about 700:1. Any LCD's with higher contrast will be dialed back if you calibrate your monitor with a cal tool like spyder or eye-1.

2-avoid any LCD monitor that's built with a "tn" panel in it. "tn" panels don't reproduce the full rgb color gamut, even when calibrated. Look for a monitor that uses an SPVA panel. If you want to know which brand and model LCD has what kind of panel, look here:
http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php

3-many manufacturers don't specify how many colors are reproduced. if they say it reproduces millions of colors, you're probably OK.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 02:11 AM   #9
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The FX series displays are something like the ballpark of $4k??? You're better off contacting them and see if you can get a demo, or if they have dealers that can give you a demo (especially in comparison to other monitors you might be looking at).

2- Depending on what NLE + OS you are on (and other factors), the output of your video card may or may not be accurate.

Monitoring from HD-SDI would avoid these issues (but then you need a HD-SDI card; I'm not sure if the BM Intensity might work for you).

3- Some of the consumer TVs out there may do some pretty wacky stuff to your image. This is not what you want in a monitor. So I'd be wary of them.
Most broadcast monitors don't do that stuff (some of the earliest Lumas did some pretty wacky stuff... like LCD burn).

Quote:
I realize that CRT monitors will yield better blacks than LCD displays.
In a bright office-type environment, I find that my computer LCD outperforms the CRT. In a dimmed environment (which is more correct if you set it up along the lines of SMPTE RP 162/166 [I can't remember the #]), then the CRT will have the edge. I wouldn't worry too much about the blacks though... most LCD monitors have color issues (e.g. s-shaped transfer function that can be calibrated away). If the primaries aren't extremely close to Rec. 709, then you'll have inaccurate color. If you calibrate that off (assuming the monitor's gamut exceeds 709), then your color will be fine... but not all monitors can do that right (e.g. the old Lumas didn't do that correctly).

4- I haven't sat down and really compared the monitors in question (e.g. running material through them and seeing if they introduce defects that aren't there, whether they are accurate, whether they look similar to a reference-grade CRT, etc.) so sorry if I can't make a particular recommendation.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 02:16 AM   #10
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Hi Jonas...............i

I'm confused.

Is there a serious problem with your camera's ability to discern/ render colour?

If so, maybe get your camera checked.

I have no knowledge of the camera you have, but am not aware that there is any camera out there that has colour so bad it needs monitoring in the field. I could, however, be sadly mistaken.

As for "back at base' well, what do you want? You can have a full blown "Studio" beast costing thousands, or, depending on where, exactly, your footage is to be shown, a good, 'ol fashioned, common or garden "telly" that just shows it like it is.

Coming back to this "colour correcting", why, exactly, do you think this is necessary?

Correct it for what, exactly?

As I say, I'm confused. I see posts here all the time talking about "colour correction", but fail to see just what, really, needs correcting.

If you ain't working for the Beeb or some other big time network (who will do whatever anyway), what is the point?

Most punters wouldn't know "true colour" if it sat up, bit them on the bum and then scampered away again.

Please excuse me if my ignorance has led me wide of the mark here, but this business of "colour correction" seems to have taken on the proportions of lens "bokah" (fercryingoutloud) and a host of other video "total myths for average video producers" that is diverting people from actually doing "real" stuff, as opposed to just "**nking about it".


Just my 2 cents worth.


CS
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Old November 14th, 2007, 08:54 AM   #11
 
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Chris,
short answer...very short....nothing's perfect, no camera in the world will capture a perfect scene every time. Mistakes happen, tungsten WB instead of outdoor WB, etc., etc. Mistakes happen all the time and need to be fixed in post. Scenes have too much contrast or not enough contrast(lighting errors) and the gamma curve is stretched in post causing color shifts, etc etc etc. If you don't apply some CC in post, you're ignoring a very powerful tool. Learn to use the color curve tool, it's indespensable. Unfortunately, the curves tool causes color shifts.

And the list goes on and on and on...
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Old November 16th, 2007, 01:23 PM   #12
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i just need to add a question. Can i buy the jvc DT-V20L1DU instead of DT-V20L1D even if iam living in europe. It would save me alot of money if i could buy it from US.
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Old November 20th, 2007, 03:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Soucy View Post
I'm confused.

Is there a serious problem with your camera's ability to discern/ render colour?

If so, maybe get your camera checked.
Most on camera displays and viewfinders don't display correct color. In fact some of them display color that is very inaccurate. I've seen what was bright green on a camera LCD show as bright yellow on a studio CRT.

Cameras in the sub $20K USD price range should not be trusted for color or exposure. They are suited only for framing, and in some cases focus. Higher end cameras come with much better color imaging on board- but even they can't be trusted for accurate exposure and color- they just get you closer.

This isn't to say that they are useless, we've all needed to use them, and I've certainly been in the situation where the on camera LCD was the best monitor on set... but you need to be sensitive to the fact that they are imprecise.

Quote:
As for "back at base' well, what do you want? You can have a full blown "Studio" beast costing thousands, or, depending on where, exactly, your footage is to be shown, a good, 'ol fashioned, common or garden "telly" that just shows it like it is.
You should have both.

The consumer television will give you a good indication of what your customers will see in the home. The problem is that your images will look very different on a Sony than they do on a Sharp or on a Samsung, etc etc.

This is because each manufacturer uses different electronic processing to your image in order to make it look "better." While your images may look great on your "telly" they may look like total shit on your neighbors, or on the office projector.

A production monitor can show you the actual images you captured accurately. This can be used as the basis for making your video conform to standards. Video that conforms to standards will display correctly on any TV or projector your customers happen to have.

If your work is to be broadcast there are laws that govern the technical specifications of your image. In the United States a broadcaster can lose their license if the video they broadcast doesn't conform to these standards.

As a result, broadcasters have ways of "fixing" your video- but they aren't worried about making your video look good, or even decent. Their only concern is keeping their license. I'm sure you remember seeing the resulting horrible commercials for local businesses.

For that matter you should also be using waveform and vectorscope monitors in the NLE to help diagnose image problems. You should be using them on set to prevent them in the first place.

You may be interested to know that a "Studio beast" of a monitor, like the Sony LMD LUMA series, include waveform and vectorscope functions.

Quote:
Coming back to this "colour correcting", why, exactly, do you think this is necessary?

Correct it for what, exactly?
Well I have already talked about technical image problems.

How about I talk instead about artistry and craftsmanship. I could write reams and reams, but why don't you just watch this instead.

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/...e=coenbrothers

Then you may want to take a look at this

http://www.autodesk.com/us/lustre/tutorial-2007-01-23/
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Old November 20th, 2007, 04:31 PM   #14
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I most ask another question so i can order my monitor. Witch one of the sony Lmb luma 20 or JVC DT-V20L1DU 20 would you prefer to buy. the are at almost the same price tag. So i don't now what to chose.

Thanks
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Old November 20th, 2007, 11:50 PM   #15
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Alexander,
I wouldn't use a consumer monitor in the field for color... they can give you an inaccurate sense of the color and lead you towards the wrong exposure and lighting decisions. One Sony consumer CRT I've used for example will make the image look way brighter than it actually is.

For framing... figure out what sort of overscan the monitor is doing.

2- Many high-end HD cameras have black & white viewfinders... even for those cameras, the on-board monitoring tends to be poor.

Jonas,
1- Check what brokerage fees, customs, and taxes you have to pay for importing items.

The brokerage fees will depend on the shipping service. Unfortunately for my country, information on these fees is difficult to find! I do not know how things work for Sweden, but you should check these fees to make sure you won't end up paying more.

2-
I haven't worked with many of the newer panels in question so I can't give you very good advice about what to get... other than to avoid monitors that don't have at least 1920x1080+ pixels... they will never deliver full resolution and will have scaling artifacts. I believe the JVC DT-V20L1DU only uses 1680 x 945 (Video) when displaying video... I would avoid that model.

There is a review of the JVC DT-V24L1D monitor:
http://www.dv.com/reviews/reviews_it...leId=196602806
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