Matrox does not calibrate monitors? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > The View: Video Display Hardware and Software

The View: Video Display Hardware and Software
Video Monitors and Media Players for field or studio use (all display technologies).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 28th, 2010, 03:25 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 532
Matrox does not calibrate monitors?

very interesting thread.

Matrox MXO2 Mini Calibration Issues : Matrox Video Systems

i would love to hear some comments/experiences from this community as well.
Brian David Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2010, 02:45 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 532
hmmmm... no opinions, experiences, or comments?
Brian David Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2010, 03:02 AM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,384
Interesting. I use a mini with max on FCP. My "monitor" is a 32" Sony bravia LED and I did have to tweak a bit to get things right....not a lot but more than a couple of numbers. Untouched the Sony was oversaturated with a pink-ish cast. I used a Spyder Pro to verify and while I understand this still isn't a true broadcast monitor as far as calibration goes, I think it's pretty darn close. Wonder what firmware is in his minis and if there's a difference since mine has the Max tech.
__________________
A7RII, C100, 1Dx, 5Dmk3, 70D, Kessler goodies, Adobe, Pro Tools and more!
Robert Turchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2010, 03:19 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 532
thanks for the reply, Robert.
that is interesting. as a quick experiment, could you do the blue only balancing with the matrox, and then with the controls in your monitor, screw up the colors royally. then see if the matrox blue only still shows a perfect balance for a completely whacked monitor?
i would love this to be merely a firmware issue, but if i understand it correctly, it may be that the actual design of the matrox can *never* do what it purports to...
Brian David Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2010, 08:10 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Mine did what it purports to do. The colors on my monitor well well off before I calibrated it. After calibration my colors and skin tones are very very good.

I also have a real broadcast monitor, and after checking them against one another for a week, I disconnected the broadcast monitor and got back a ton of space on my desktop.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2010, 10:02 AM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 532
here is what i am talking about.
photos of Matrox mini (firmware 10.0 on OS 10.6.4 in FCP 6.0.6) color balanced monitor and blue only ('all colors 1' and 'blue only 1').
then i crank the hue and saturation to 100 on the monitor, and still the blue only shows a perfectly calibrated monitor ('all colors 2' and 'blue only 2').
so how can the Matrox blue only be an accurate way to calibrate a monitor, if it does not reflect the radical change in the colors that the monitor is showing?
am i missing something?
Attached Thumbnails
Matrox does not calibrate monitors?-all-colors-1.jpg   Matrox does not calibrate monitors?-blue-only-1.jpg  

Matrox does not calibrate monitors?-all-colors-2.jpg   Matrox does not calibrate monitors?-blue-only-2.jpg  

Brian David Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2010, 10:07 AM   #7
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian David Melnyk View Post
thanks for the reply, Robert.
that is interesting. as a quick experiment, could you do the blue only balancing with the matrox, and then with the controls in your monitor, screw up the colors royally. then see if the matrox blue only still shows a perfect balance for a completely whacked monitor?
i would love this to be merely a firmware issue, but if i understand it correctly, it may be that the actual design of the matrox can *never* do what it purports to...
The blue setting was the first thing I checked when setting up the calibration and it was off prompting me to fix the settings. It did what it was supposed to do.
__________________
A7RII, C100, 1Dx, 5Dmk3, 70D, Kessler goodies, Adobe, Pro Tools and more!
Robert Turchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2010, 11:13 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 532
could someone please try the above test?
in this way, if the blue only actually reflects the radical change in the monitor's color (as i think it should), i can cross reference my set up with yours to try to get to the heart of the issue...
if it doesn't, it may confirm a bigger problem that should be dealt with.
or am i still missing something? any color/technical genius care to weigh in?
Brian David Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 10:02 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 660
Has anyone talked with or received a response form Matrox? I did not see any info on their forums to reflect this problem.
Jonathan Levin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 03:05 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 532
this is a thread on the Matrox forum dealing with this issue:

Matrox MXO User Forum :: View topic - Calibration issues- can I trust this?

they are apparently looking into it, but no response yet...
can any other Matrox users here confirm the above test? if you are convinced that the Matrox works as it should, this is a good way to test it and confirm. if your monitor's colors are made radically wrong with the in-monitor hue/saturation controls, the matrox 'blue only' should reflect this and thus, enable you to correct it...
Brian David Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 04:26 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 660
Brian,

I've been having irregular results with the calibration utility.

Thanks for showing me the Matrox thread. I just added a gentle nudge to the thread.

Jonathan
Jonathan Levin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 14th, 2010, 02:42 AM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,554
Just search my name and 'Mini' and you will see all my posts arguing against the Mini as a device for accurate color.

I have the Mini but have not used it but once in the last several months. I also have a BM Decklink Extreme 3D, Quadro FX3800, Eizo CG243W, Panasonic BT-LH1710W and Sony Bravia 32". I ran a little test comparing the Mini with Sony, the Quadro via DP to the Eizo and the Decklink via HD-SDI to Panny. The Mini/Sony looked noticeably different from the Eizo and Panasonic LCDs.

No one has corrected me on this statement so I still stand by it, "calibrate with Bars for PRODUCTION and 'hardware' calibrate to a color space for FINISHING & GRADING" - so, why would you solely use the Mini's calibration with Bars for finishing & grading?
Steve Kalle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 14th, 2010, 06:01 AM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 532
Steve:
i read some of your posts and am looking forward to trying turning the Red/Green to zero on the monitor and calibrating 'blue only' this way with the mini's calibration tools.
Initially, what i was looking for and what he mini purported to do, was to get the monitor *more accurate* with the 'blue only' feature. i know it is not the best solution, but i thought it was an affordable way to improve my monitor/color correction...
my question is this: does the mini's 'blue only' work AT ALL for color calibration or is it just a visual placebo?
the silence from Matrox on this issue seems to indicate it does not do what it was advertised to do. i would at least like to see Matrox step up to the plate and admit what the mini does NOT do, so we can find other solutions (like your above method), and so customers buying the product mainly for this feature are not wasting their time and money.
i would like to think that the mini outputting a YUV color space helps me, as does adjusting the brightness/contrast with the mini's 'blue only'. but i really don't have a firm grasp on this rather complicated subject...
Brian David Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2010, 10:45 AM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 532
ok. i calibrated my Dell U2410 set in the monitor as:
Input color format> YPbPr
Gamma> PC
Mode selection> Graphics ('Video' would not give me the Preset Mode> 'Custom Color' RGB slider controls, just Hue and Saturation)
connected through Mini>HDMI

i used the Matrox Mini calibration tool with chroma turned to zero to calibrate the brightness and then contrast using the Matrox HD bars in a FCP timeline.
then i set the chroma back to 50.
then went to the Dell's Color Settings>Preset Mode>Custom Color>Gain and turned both R and G to Zero. with this 'Blue Only' i calibrated the chroma and Hue with the Mini's calibration.

The difference between the Matrox 'blue only' and the in-monitor Dell 'blue only':
Matrox 'blue only', the settings were:
Hue: 0
Chroma:48

Dell 'Blue Only':
Hue: 0
Saturation: 57

not sure what to make of these results, or if i have come any closer to a more accurate monitor, but it seems to me the Dell 'Blue only' trick is more likely to be adjusting what the monitor is outputting and not just the signal it is receiving. am i right to be slightly suspicious that neither method actually needed a Hue adjustment?
what is the difference between using this method and having a monitor that actually has a hardware 'blue only' function?
Brian David Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2010, 05:15 AM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 63
Just got here via another thread. Brian, from what I've read so far, the blue-only calibration needs to be as far in the line as possible, so it seems to me your 'Dell-blue only' option is better than the MXO2...

I'm curious if I can turn my Samsung HDTV into a semi-broadcast monitor with this guide, and instead of feeding it with the testpatterns on DVD or BluRay, I'm going to put in the MXO2 signal; I think this is as close as you're gonna get without shelling out $2k or more for a dedicated broadcast monitor.
GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES

(According to multiple review-sites, they were able to calibrate consumer HDTV's to within broadcast-monitor specs...)
Michiel van Baasbank is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > The View: Video Display Hardware and Software

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:50 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network