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Wedding / Event Videography Techniques
Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old October 25th, 2007, 04:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Peter Chung View Post
Nor is it about size.
HE HE HE - there ya go, equipment envy!
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Old October 25th, 2007, 05:55 PM   #32
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I the photography world there are lots of "how to" videos to buy. It does not mean I'm able to copy someones personality or etc. I'm just looking for a how to video by Patrick which teaches me a good foundation on Wedding Videography and "how to" use a steadicam on a wedding day. I have not seen anyone else using a steadicam like Patrick does on a wedding day. The video world and photography world seems to be very different in how to learn and sharing. I hope Patrick puts together a great wedding "how to" video..

Walter
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Old October 25th, 2007, 06:12 PM   #33
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The video world and photography world seems to be very different in how to learn and sharing. I hope Patrick puts together a great wedding "how to" video..

Walter
Generally there is an open exchange of ideas and knowledge in the video and film community. This thread however might lead one to think otherwise.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 06:28 PM   #34
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You'd expect someone to hand over their trade secrets in an edited film to you so you can emulate it and only pay them a measly $50??????
You expect that one can learn more from a wedding video than from Hollywood movies, which are sold for $10-20? Oh I see, wedding videos is a totally different art, nothing that Hollywood has ever made is applicable.

On the topic: if I were the groom I would assume that my wedding video is MY wedding video, exclusively. I would not even think that the videographer would want to sell it to someone else.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 06:55 PM   #35
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Generally there is an open exchange of ideas and knowledge in the video and film community. This thread however might lead one to think otherwise.
You're right.
i was the one who asked Patrick to see a complete wedding video. My idea was learning something, seeing what other people are doing in this business.
I love Patrick's videos. To me, they are the best wedding videos.
First, i didn't see any problem asking for that, because i thought if people were on this site was for the exchange of ideas/technics, help and being helped.
But maybe I was wrong. Maybe we're not here to help and being helped. Maybe we're here just to show off and listen to people telling us we're great.
Maybe you all can start charging the B&G friends, because they will certainly see the video and they can also rip your ideas... OH! Uncle Bob is now a great videographer because he saw a blueskiescinema.com video...
Or maybe Spielberg must start charging 200$ for a movie ticket, because someone can get better then him by watching his movies.
Me? I don't want to rip anyones ideas or style. I'm just a fresh videographer willing to improve in a country where video is very bad paid and where there is no place to learn anything new. I want to see new things, new styles, and I'm ready to pay for a copy if i need to.
I will wait for Patrick response, and I hope it will be a positive one.
Sorry if my english is not the best, and i hope i didn't offend anyone.

L.R.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 07:01 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Mark Von Lanken View Post
Hi Tim,

The Brides do not care what size of chips your camera has. They are not caught up in the gear.

I have not booked a $10k bride, but the bride that paid us $9200 didn't once ask us about chip size or anything about gear.

Hi Mark,

Well, I guess we can disagree.

Sure brides are not going to ask for technical information, and by saying they don't ask is kind of a cop-out.

When one can buy a lot-to-most of the equipment cost in a single booking, I feel the customer is being overcharged for the image output.

My point is that you may put a nice package together, but during the available light sequences, you camera can only look as good as it is, no amount of talent can stop the whites from clipping too early or the lack of color information, or the overall look that camera makes.

If somebody charges $10,000 per booking, and they book a few, can't they afford to use a higher level of equipment?

These are people here who are paying for our services, and the fact that they don't always know the difference leaves the responsiblilty to us, who do know the difference.

Just my ethics and opinion.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 07:26 PM   #37
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HE HE HE - there ya go, equipment envy!
My chips are bigger than yours! ... so you should pay me more!

Boohoo! No one wants to pay me $10k even though I have THREE CCDs!

Instead of comparing chip sizes or whatever, why don't we aim to make a product that's worth paying more for?

Patrick, I think the sharing you've been doing on the forums and offline are with the intent of improving the quality of videography as a whole, so thank you for that. Charge what you think is worth your time for making copies and answering the swarm of questions you will undoubtedly receive. It's definitely appreciated that you share your work and I'm sure many others will benefit from your DVD as has been stated many times already.

A good model is Glen Elliott's training DVD. He gives the DVD as a client would receive it and added special tracks where he comments on his process and thoughts as well as subtitle tracks about equipment used and another subtitle track with the questions that he asked that you see the client answering on the video. It gives a lot more insight into his work process and, of course, it took him a lot more time than just burning a client's DVD.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 11:22 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
Hi Mark,

Well, I guess we can disagree.

Sure brides are not going to ask for technical information, and by saying they don't ask is kind of a cop-out.

When one can buy a lot-to-most of the equipment cost in a single booking, I feel the customer is being overcharged for the image output.

My point is that you may put a nice package together, but during the available light sequences, you camera can only look as good as it is, no amount of talent can stop the whites from clipping too early or the lack of color information, or the overall look that camera makes.

If somebody charges $10,000 per booking, and they book a few, can't they afford to use a higher level of equipment?

These are people here who are paying for our services, and the fact that they don't always know the difference leaves the responsiblilty to us, who do know the difference.

Just my ethics and opinion.
Hi Tim,

Thank you for being civil while disagreeing with me.

Perhaps I have misunderstood the type of cameras you are referring to. I understood that you were saying that 1/3 inch cameras were not appropriate to use if the Bride is paying $10,000. But then you commented that a single $10,000 booking would pay for a lot to most of the equipment needed. Well obviously you cannot buy three PD 170s and especially 3 Z1s, the support gear, audio gear and lighting gear for $10,000, let alone the hardware and software needed to edit the project. If I'm missing something, please let me know.

I don't know what gear you use and exactly how you price your weddings, but I was basing my observation on a handful of wedding videographers that I know personally who get $10k plus, yet shoot with 1/3 inch cameras.

My point was that the Brides we have booked our company have not asked about equipment and I don't consider that a cop-out. They see DVDs we have produced for other clients, they like what they see and they book. Most of our weddings fall in the $3000-$5500 range, but we have had some 6-7k weddings and even the top booking at $9200 did not ask about our gear. They saw what we produced for other clients, liked it and booked.

They were not interested in the whites clipping too early or a lack of color information. They saw a creative, emotional movie of the day and based their purchase on what they saw and how it moved them.

At the end of the day, a Bride will spend her money with the videographer who uses 1/3 inch gear, but moves her, versus the videographer that has better gear, but does not move her. It's not the gear, but how you use it to tell the story of her day. This is what I have experienced over the last 11 years in this business.
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www.VonWeddingFilms.com
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Old October 25th, 2007, 11:42 PM   #39
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I don't want to rip anyones ideas or style.
L.R.
Not to accuse anyone or create negative impact, but it seems like a lot of wedding videos are beginning to look alike. Or is it just my imagination?
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Old October 26th, 2007, 12:11 AM   #40
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Not to accuse anyone or create negative impact, but it seems like a lot of wedding videos are beginning to look alike. Or is it just my imagination?
Don't tell me you never took an idea from someone else's video. Everyone does, everyone did and everyone will.
And even if everybody makes the same kind of stuff, there will be differences anyway. I can copy a Picasso, but it will never be a real Picasso.
So, what's your point? Are you afraid that the copies will be better than the original? I don't think so...

L.R.
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Old October 26th, 2007, 12:27 AM   #41
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Mark,

Happy to be civil as we should all work together.

I just looked on B&H and the PD-170 is going for $2499.

3 x 2499 = $7500

That leaves $2500 for mics, lights, tripods.

For HDV, then two bookings.

I guess my point about gear is that it is not either or.

When I bring this up I always get people saying "it is not about the gear, it is all about the talent".

Well, I would say, what if you used that talent with better gear?

In most other businesses, it is not normal to come close to the cost of equipment within a few jobs, but in the still/video world, people seem to expect this.

-As an aside, have you ever used larger chip cameras for any work?-

Because for me, after using better cameras, I never want to use 1/3" chips because I feel it is selling myself short.


I own Pd-170s and larger chip cameras and the larger chip cameras produce a way better image than the PD-170s.

Now if I filmed the same wedding with the two different cameras, would one say that the talent played a part in one looking better that the other?

I used the VX-2000/PD-170 as my entry into this field, but after I got my business together I upgraded because image quality is very important to me and I feel that it is important to use higher level gear if I want to be viewed as a higher level outfit.

I am looking at the Sony EX camera to be the perfect wedding camera right now as it has larger chips and portability for $8,000-$9,000 with memory.

Sorry for the thread hijack!

BTW, I think selling a production should start with the client as it is their event and private moments and profiting off of this should be with their blessing.
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Old October 26th, 2007, 02:40 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto View Post
Not to accuse anyone or create negative impact, but it seems like a lot of wedding videos are beginning to look alike. Or is it just my imagination?
This would be a fascinating discussion for another thread I think. I don't think your point is without merit. Even though everyone has their own style and quirks, there does seem to be a fair number who ply their trade in the same aesthetic. The question is this: Is the bride's pallette refined enough to see the differences? Or does it all run together?

As for selling training DVDs, I think if it's a show reel type thing, a commentary track is essential. I've done two training DVDs that are more of a fundamentals type thing. One on shooting and the other on editing. Both are the concept and example type of video and I'm pretty proud of them. The shooting one I sell for $100 and the editing one goes for $125.

I for one would love to see a full production with commentary from you Patrick. Your work is outstanding and I'm not too big for my britches to learn something new. Best of luck!

Chris W
Watson Videography
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Old October 26th, 2007, 02:57 AM   #43
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I think if you're going to pay THAT much for a single day shoot, you deserve true pro equipment, and at the least a dedicated sound man!

As I see it, there should be a correlation between pricing and gear. There's some guy here, forgot his name, but he does nice work and charges a few grand. High end. But they've got a full time steadicam operator! and a *real* steadicam not some crap DIY. And I think their crew is using xlh1's. You should get what you pay for.
All the pro equipment in the world won't save the video from sucking if the operator is not an artist. Gear is important but if your work is average, you won't ever get to $10K even if you own a Red One camera.

Chris W
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Old October 26th, 2007, 07:08 AM   #44
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All the pro equipment in the world won't save the video from sucking if the operator is not an artist. Gear is important but if your work is average, you won't ever get to $10K even if you own a Red One camera.

Chris W
very true chris
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Old October 26th, 2007, 09:55 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
I guess my point about gear is that it is not either or.

When I bring this up I always get people saying "it is not about the gear, it is all about the talent".

Well, I would say, what if you used that talent with better gear?
Tim, obviously, that would be ideal: that you use your talent and with the increased talent, use better gear. I think, the point, however, is in the emphasis of investing first in improving your skills using the best equipment you currently have access to.


Quote:
I am looking at the Sony EX camera to be the perfect wedding camera right now as it has larger chips and portability for $8,000-$9,000 with memory.
Dude, that camera is sweet! If the initial reports are true and it actually does "brighten reality," it'll rock my world! :)
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