To be in HD or not to be...that is the question

Mike Wade · December 8th, 2007, 03:43 PM

I have just read Lloyd's piece with which I agree entirely. I should like to add the usefulness of correcting verticals in would-be straight shots to his list of the advantages of editing in HDV. We have an unmanned camera on a jib which nearly always benefits from a little judicious tweaking in post.

Allister Gourlay · December 8th, 2007, 03:55 PM

I to can film edit in HD on Sony z1 and edit with Apple Final Cut Pro but STILL no mastering facility if you use apple equipment that i know of!

Dana Salsbury · December 10th, 2007, 02:15 AM

Oh man, Lloyd, you're right. I didn't even think about the fact that I'll lose my ability to zoom the static cam when people go HD. What a bummer. My third static cam has made me look so cool.

Ger Griffin · December 10th, 2007, 02:37 AM

yea that can make for some seriously cool editing.
Id imagine a music video would work well.
I can see it now!
10 frames to pan a camera accross a room and stop dead centre!

Hopefully by the time 1080p becomes the norm we we'll have a bigger format to use for this. Who knows, maybe by then Nikon D9 will shoot 25fps at 16million pixels for 3 hrs!

Mary Angelini · February 25th, 2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lloyd Coleman

For me there is one HUGE advantage to shooting in HD and delivering in SD - options and flexibility in editing. If I am delivering an SD product and I shoot in HD I have an original picture that is much bigger than I need. This means I can shoot wider than I normally would and make decisions as I edit. I bring the HD footage into an SD project and can zoom or pan. For example:

Sports - in football I shoot wide and then as I edit I can zoom in on the quarterback and then follow the ball to the reciever. If the ball was not caught I could instead zoom in on a great block with the same footage. I didn't have to decide as I shot.

Weddings - Set an unmanned camera in the back, shooting wide. In the edit, zoom in on the bride and groom, pan across the audience, etc. It looks like there is an operator on the camera and he is SMOOTH, no jerks or bumps and he always picks the best shot. Shoot the bride wide in front of the church - now you can zoom in or out, you can try a Dutch angle (don't like it tilting left, try right instead), pan from the bottom up or top down. Shoot the family wide and then zoom in on the bride and groom or catch the nephew giving grandpa rabbit ears.

I have learned to like editing this way so much that I hope it is a long time before everyone is asking for HD and I don't have these options any more.

Brilliant!
What camera and editing software do you use?

Tom Hardwick · February 26th, 2008, 01:28 AM

I too think LLoyds technique brilliant. Why didn't I think of doing this? Now to figure out how to do it in Edius.

Matt Duke · February 27th, 2008, 06:12 AM

What about if you want to film and edit in HD, but then provide the client the DVD in SD. BUT, to later on provide them with a HD version that they pay extra for.

Michael Liebergot · February 27th, 2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Duke

What about if you want to film and edit in HD, but then provide the client the DVD in SD. BUT, to later on provide them with a HD version that they pay extra for.

Then the pan scan version that is being discussed will not work, as your footage will be upscaled HD and blurry.

Blake Cavett · February 27th, 2008, 07:48 PM

Is there any benefit to shooting HDV, editing HDV and then converting to SD for a DVD as opposed to shooting HDV, editing SD and delivering a SD DVD?

Zach Stewart · February 27th, 2008, 11:01 PM

I see everyone's point on using the pan and scan technique, but at the same time to save space/processing power by editing SD with SD footage it would be kind of redundant to use HD footage in an SD project. I am choosing to keep with the downconverted SD footage for now to speed up rendering/processing power. I have a big powerful computer (in my opinion) and it gets the job done in HD but its not a monster like it is in the SD workflow.

I also don't see any benefit in editing HDV but delivery SD DVD. The only reason I can think of is that you have HDV demo reel footage for a later date for yourself, and I personally don't think anyone would come back years later for the HD version. Wedding videos are flaky as is, and to get someone to pay more later is near impossible in the market I am.

Bill Busby · February 27th, 2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach Stewart

I also don't see any benefit in editing HDV but delivery SD DVD. The only reason I can think of is that you have HDV demo reel footage for a later date for yourself...

Since HDV has something like 4+ times the pixel info of DV, you have all that available for the mpeg2 encoding for a SD DVD. Downconvert to DV for capture & edit & you've thrown all those extra bits out the window to begin with & won't be available for the encoding process.

Plus... you'll have HDV raw footage for demo purposes. And I would think to up-sell an HDV version could be as simple as letting a client just see a before/after scenario.

December 8th, 2007, 03:55 PM	#17
Allister Gourlay Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: glasgow Posts: 27	I to can film edit in HD on Sony z1 and edit with Apple Final Cut Pro but STILL no mastering facility if you use apple equipment that i know of! __________________ Thats not the way the world works!

December 10th, 2007, 02:15 AM	#18
Dana Salsbury Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 859	Oh man, Lloyd, you're right. I didn't even think about the fact that I'll lose my ability to zoom the static cam when people go HD. What a bummer. My third static cam has made me look so cool. __________________ www.LegacyHDV.com Weddings \| Corporate \| HMC150s \| FCPX \| Encore \| Lion

December 8th, 2007, 03:43 PM	#16
Mike Wade Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 161	I have just read Lloyd's piece with which I agree entirely. I should like to add the usefulness of correcting verticals in would-be straight shots to his list of the advantages of editing in HDV. We have an unmanned camera on a jib which nearly always benefits from a little judicious tweaking in post.

December 10th, 2007, 02:37 AM	#19
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	yea that can make for some seriously cool editing. Id imagine a music video would work well. I can see it now! 10 frames to pan a camera accross a room and stop dead centre! Hopefully by the time 1080p becomes the norm we we'll have a bigger format to use for this. Who knows, maybe by then Nikon D9 will shoot 25fps at 16million pixels for 3 hrs!

February 26th, 2008, 01:28 AM	#21
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	I too think LLoyds technique brilliant. Why didn't I think of doing this? Now to figure out how to do it in Edius.

February 27th, 2008, 06:12 AM	#22
Matt Duke Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 69	What about if you want to film and edit in HD, but then provide the client the DVD in SD. BUT, to later on provide them with a HD version that they pay extra for.

February 27th, 2008, 07:48 PM	#24
Blake Cavett Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Madison Posts: 330	Is there any benefit to shooting HDV, editing HDV and then converting to SD for a DVD as opposed to shooting HDV, editing SD and delivering a SD DVD?

February 27th, 2008, 11:01 PM	#25
Zach Stewart Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 176	I see everyone's point on using the pan and scan technique, but at the same time to save space/processing power by editing SD with SD footage it would be kind of redundant to use HD footage in an SD project. I am choosing to keep with the downconverted SD footage for now to speed up rendering/processing power. I have a big powerful computer (in my opinion) and it gets the job done in HD but its not a monster like it is in the SD workflow. I also don't see any benefit in editing HDV but delivery SD DVD. The only reason I can think of is that you have HDV demo reel footage for a later date for yourself, and I personally don't think anyone would come back years later for the HD version. Wedding videos are flaky as is, and to get someone to pay more later is near impossible in the market I am.