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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old April 24th, 2008, 09:02 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Carl Wilky View Post
Nicely done, story board or no, well done.

Three quick questions for you, you say when shooting in 24p you got to keep certain things in mind. What are they?

Secondly, How much, percentage wise, would you say you shot using a 35mm adaptor?

Lastly, how many takes did you need to capture a good shot?

Thanks for your help Patrick, your feedback and incite is always appreciated.
Hi Carl,

1. When shooting 24P you don't need to watch the amount of motion as much as you need to watch the type of motion. Arcing around objects in a semi-circle helps a lot, moving the camera at the same pace as your subject, avoid slow lateral pans (a whip pan here replaces the slow pan and looks gorgeous in 24P).You also want to shoot the footage in the same speech you want it shown. If we want something in slow motion, I will shoot it that way, so I don't need to go through twixtor (which I'm not too fond of) and I don't have choppy slow mo either.

2. Both cams with the Brevis were A1s, the EX1 was on the steadicam and being tapeless, we could review our shots on site. We shot about 60 minutes of brevis footage between both cameras. I think I shot about 8 minutes or so with the EX1. It is great to be able to review a shot, delete it if it is bad, redo it if needed- then move on.

3. In most cases, we only need one. The first take is usually very usable and 90% of the way there if not more. Any shot that is more involved had at least 3 takes just to be safe, and I explain that to everybody before we start. By take 3 if we don't change the shot drastically, we are done. Otherwise we usually do 3 more with the new concept.

The long running shot where I start behind the guys then start running backwards away from them was done about 4 times as there was so much to keep in mind and timing was so tough with that many people and objects in the middle of the shoot. Though there was a cut to the feet in the middle of the shot, it was one continuous steadicam shot so we had to time them running around the one corner with me coming out the other side.

I hope that helps.

Patrick
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Old April 24th, 2008, 09:07 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Travis Cossel View Post
First did you make use of additional lighting or reflectors for any of the indoor or outdoor shots?

Second, I don't shoot in 24P, but I shoot in frame mode on the Canon GL2, which is "simulated" progressive. You mentioned that you have need to keep certain things in mind when shooting 24P. What are those?

Third, how in the world do you find a client that wants mock music videos produced for their reception? Just kidding, you don't have to answer that one!


Once again, I loved the video. My wife can't stand the Beastie Boys, and can't stand that song, but she loved it when I showed it to her! Trust me, that is saying something. The only shot that didn't seem right to me is at .49 when the guy with the afro stops and points his gun. In the shots before and after he is running, and it just felt out of place to me. Other than that minor gripe, though, what an amazingly shot/edited video. If I saw this on MTV I wouldn't think twice that a music video production company shot it. Great work!
Travis,

1. We did have a reflector with us and we also had a small hand held light for one or two shots inside the factory. We used them when we could but time was a big factor, so they only made brief appearances. Understanding light and the best way to shoot it is something that we are always working on and is an immense step forward in production value.

2. You'll find the answer to that one above. As far as I know, frame mode is not as smooth as 24P or 24F so I would be extra careful with your movement.

3. We seem to be attracting more and more clients who really get what we do and want to push it even further. As we show more and more diversity in our work, we seem to be getting more requests for these different sort of projects. After screening this Beastie boys video with a new couple yesterday, they told us of two short films they would like us to produce for their wedding- and they sound very exciting. I thin the key is trying something and then rolling from there.

Patrick
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Old April 24th, 2008, 09:13 PM   #18
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Thanks Patrick,
By overcranking the shot am I correct to assume you would increase the shutter speed and shoot normally in order to slow down in post? I think that is what you mean. Also the more away from conventional you creep I think the more business you will bring in, although it will mean more work but much more creative and fun results.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 09:33 PM   #19
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Jason,

The slow motion is done with the EX1. It allows you to do slow motion in camera, so by overcranking you are actually shooting at a higher shutter rate than 24P and it comes out as slow as soon as you review the shot. You can do up to 60fps, which is is 2.5 times 24fps so it is quite slow.

Travis,

I missed something in your post. You pointed out a shot that you felt was out of place. As is, I completely agree. When shown at the reception, all those face shots will have their names quickly flash so it will fit much better then.

Patrick
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Old April 25th, 2008, 03:46 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Patrick Moreau View Post
Travis,

I missed something in your post. You pointed out a shot that you felt was out of place. As is, I completely agree. When shown at the reception, all those face shots will have their names quickly flash so it will fit much better then.

Patrick
Thank you, first of all, for taking the time to answer questions. Even though I don't get the opportunity to shoot many of the things you do, I get to live vicariously somewhat through watching your work and learning about it. Thank you very much.

Second, thanks for the explanation about that "out of place" shot; makes sense now.

Finally, and not to derail your topic hopefully (if you prefer we can talk about this via PM), but you mentioned showing this video and "new work" in general to new potential clients ... and how that gets you more interest for different kinds of work.

How much time would you say you spend showing actual video material to potential clients when you meet with them? I ask because I typically show a 15-20 minute main feature from start to finish, and then a 3-5 minute highlights video, and then we go over questions. My wife is a photographer, so after all of that we go over her materials and products, and then discuss prices and packages. Overall our initial consult meetings run 60-90 minutes, and I feel if I tried to show more video that I would be potentially "overshowing" my work and making my clients restless.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 06:18 PM   #21
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How much time would you say you spend showing actual video material to potential clients when you meet with them? I ask because I typically show a 15-20 minute main feature from start to finish, and then a 3-5 minute highlights video, and then we go over questions. My wife is a photographer, so after all of that we go over her materials and products, and then discuss prices and packages. Overall our initial consult meetings run 60-90 minutes, and I feel if I tried to show more video that I would be potentially "overshowing" my work and making my clients restless.
The key for us is really taking the time to get to know the clients, asking the right questions, and then showing the appropriate material. Showing this clip to the wrong couple could really turn them away quickly, but not showing it to the right couple could be equally detrimental. We probably show about 30 min in the theatre, but it is completely different for every couple, and they also have a chance later in the consult to go back and view more.

Patrick
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Old April 27th, 2008, 11:42 PM   #22
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That kicked ass. Excellent execution from end to end.


May I suggest a "Snatch-style" OBB for your intended text indroducing the characters.

Cheers!
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Old April 28th, 2008, 01:43 AM   #23
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The key for us is really taking the time to get to know the clients, asking the right questions, and then showing the appropriate material. Showing this clip to the wrong couple could really turn them away quickly, but not showing it to the right couple could be equally detrimental. We probably show about 30 min in the theatre, but it is completely different for every couple, and they also have a chance later in the consult to go back and view more.

Patrick
Okay, that makes sense. We usually demo our work first (video first, followed by photography) and then open a discussion with the client.

Looking forward to seeing the next music video!
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Old April 28th, 2008, 05:14 AM   #24
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When I read the title I was a bit worried because this Beastie Boys clip is one of my favorite and to have someone have a go at trying to do a mock at it, just scary.. but you come through with the goods!

I would say maybe a bit more pale colours, very light film funk and the mid action pauses with names come up will be perfect :)
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Old April 28th, 2008, 11:28 PM   #25
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Jason,

I missed something in your post. You pointed out a shot that you felt was out of place. As is, I completely agree. When shown at the reception, all those face shots will have their names quickly flash so it will fit much better then.

Patrick

I can totally envision that and it'll look pretty cool with the names written on the screen, sort of like the original video. Way to plan ahead.

Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions Patrick, you're helping us tremendously.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 02:53 AM   #26
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Patrick, It keeps amazing me how clients in your country are interested for this kind of productions, I really envy you for having the opportunity to do this kind of stuff for weddings. Here in Belgium it's virtually impossible to find clients who are willing to invest time in something creative like this, and if you do they probably expect it to be free of charge.
It's sometimes frustrating to see you guys go all the way while here I get to do the same standard thing over and over again, I still love doing it but my creative side screams for more. Anyway, loved what you did taken the short time you had to film it into consideration, great job.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 04:38 AM   #27
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Patrick, It keeps amazing me how clients in your country are interested for this kind of productions, I really envy you for having the opportunity to do this kind of stuff for weddings. Here in Belgium it's virtually impossible to find clients who are willing to invest time in something creative like this, and if you do they probably expect it to be free of charge.
It's sometimes frustrating to see you guys go all the way while here I get to do the same standard thing over and over again, I still love doing it but my creative side screams for more. Anyway, loved what you did taken the short time you had to film it into consideration, great job.
Noa, I can totally sympathize with you. As much as I love seeing Patrick's work, it can be frustrating at the same time because I want to do the same type of creative work.

I think the key is to constantly move your work forward, and eventually the market you are in will adapt over time and you will start getting paid for your extra efforts. I could be wrong, but that's the strategy I'm trying at the moment. I figure I can wait for my market to catch up, or I can try to speed up the process.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 06:24 AM   #28
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I think the key is to constantly move your work forward, and eventually the market you are in will adapt over time and you will start getting paid for your extra efforts.
Here you can forget about that, Belgium is a very small country with a strong photographers tradition, they often spend way more on that part then on video. I also work in the Netherlands but same there, photo first, then video. Most of them rather have just uncle Sam videotape their wedding then spend any money on it.
Another problem is that the maket is flooded with videographer wannabees who have a full time job and doing video as a hobby and a easy way to make extra cash. They work cheap and most people don't see or care about the difference in quality that's delivered. As long as they have it on film it's OK.
Not all couples are like that, there are more openminded people but as said before, money is often a big issue, if I would be charging Patricks prizes I would be out of business within a year, no-one would pay that amount for a video.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 09:40 AM   #29
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Not all couples are like that, there are more openminded people but as said before, money is often a big issue, if I would be charging Patricks prizes I would be out of business within a year, no-one would pay that amount for a video.[/QUOTE]

Noa,
I have had this exact discussion with Patrick as my clients are willing to do these types of skits but are unwilling to pay the money for it. As Patrick stated to me; if your market isn't willing to pay you what you are worth, then stop trying in your market and target the areas that are willing to pay you what you are worth. This approach has worked for him as not everyone in Canada is willing to pay his prices so he has moved outside his area and advertised in the areas that will pay his amount. For instance he has been flown to California, Calgary, and now England, and not to mention the Dominican Republic. I don't know about your area but there are clients who have the funds to pay for quality work and if you can offer the type of quality that Patrick's WHOLE team does then there might be more business than you think.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 10:07 AM   #30
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target the areas that are willing to pay you what you are worth.
Well, that's just the problem, I never had the ambition of expanding my working area way past Belgian borders, you have to realize that I live near the border of 3 different countries causing a language problem as well. Not for the Netherlands but For France and the French speaking part of Belgium and Germany. You guys could fly great distances an everybody still understands you.
I do know that by working in this way I am limiting myself but that's a choice I made.
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