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Wedding / Event Videography Techniques
Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old November 1st, 2008, 11:51 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Waite View Post
Assuming your talking about mine:
Actually, I was referring to David's clip on Vimeo :)

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Old November 1st, 2008, 03:33 PM   #47
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oops, didn't see your "quote", I'm a doofus, don't mind me.

*Edit: Ok, so I just watched the video Patrick was referring to. I defiantly noticed the Glidecam issues as well, but you really gotta be looking for it. The mom flipping the bird was classic! Pacing was great! Love the whip pans! My only bit of critique would be the levels of audio when you're doubling up vocals... both the vocals in the music bed and the vocals of the subjects. Other than that, I love the idea!
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Old November 7th, 2008, 10:56 AM   #48
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Really what it boils down to for me:
-It's hard for me to sell SDEs in my market
I'm not sure I understand why it's hard to sell them? I'm in a relatively small Canadian market and they're selling like hot cakes. I find it hard to understand why any decent-sized city in California wouldn't respond to a well-produced and properly-marketed SDE add-on.
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Old November 7th, 2008, 12:16 PM   #49
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I am not in anyway being paid by Patrick and the gang. I just fully believe in upping the ante in this industry, and they have really forced me to think in a different manner. When I first met Patrick he was relatively low priced in his market and his stuff was about par with where I was at that time. In one year he took his game to a whole new level and it has paid dividends for him and his company. This has forced me to reevaluate my company and shooting style. In by doing so I have now started booking weddings half way around the country in where they are not only paying me my rates but also paying for flights, accommodations, and food. This industry is full of low to mediocre videographers who do this as a hobby and don't care about pricing what they are worth. This only hurts us as a collective because many people don't see the reason to pay more after seeing so many blah films. Stillmotion is at the forefront in promoting higher quality film and photos and pushing the boundaries. Some other names that come to mind are Glen Elliott, Jason Magbanua, Mayad Studios, Walter S. Chelliah, all of whom frequent this site and give invaluable tips and hints. I also believe that Cloud Nine is a leader in promoting this industry which is why Bruce has taken a small company and opened a national magazine promoting the very best in weddings. This wasn't a promo ad for Stillmotion but rather an explanation on why they can get the prices they do and why people are craving them. This is why ReFrame has asked him to speak at their convention in Austin. Also please keep in mind that not only am I the president of Stillmotion I am also a member :)
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Old November 7th, 2008, 01:22 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Bruce Patterson View Post
I'm not sure I understand why it's hard to sell them? I'm in a relatively small Canadian market and they're selling like hot cakes. I find it hard to understand why any decent-sized city in California wouldn't respond to a well-produced and properly-marketed SDE add-on.
I can't speak for California, but where I live videography is still basically an afterthought for most brides. The brides who DO want a video typically just want the ceremony and some of the reception filmed. It takes a lot of effort just to get them interested in filming the preceremony activities, and add-on options like SDE's, save the dates, love stories .. just don't get any priority from the brides .. and it's NOT a quality issue.

I think you have to understand that markets can be vastly different from one another.
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Old November 7th, 2008, 01:31 PM   #51
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I can't speak for California, but where I live videography is still basically an afterthought for most brides. The brides who DO want a video typically just want the ceremony and some of the reception filmed. It takes a lot of effort just to get them interested in filming the preceremony activities, and add-on options like SDE's, save the dates, love stories .. just don't get any priority from the brides .. and it's NOT a quality issue.

I think you have to understand that markets can be vastly different from one another.
Travis. I completely understand that markets are different - I market directly to many different markets myself and have to adjust my sales pitch for most of them. But, if the population is there (what is the population in your target market?) then it DOES boil down to a sales-pitch since it's fair to say that video is an afterthought in nearly EVERY market. This makes your situation no different than many others, unless you are marketing to a town of 5000. Just trying to be helpful.

"People don't know what they want until you show it to them." - Steve Jobs

Maybe the brides are asking for only ceremony/reception because that's all they know. If you can show them the high quality of your work and let them see how it can be done differently with your company, you are setting yourself up for success.
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Old November 7th, 2008, 02:06 PM   #52
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Hi Bruce,

I seem to remember you mentioning not too long ago that they weren't in demand in your market and you weren't offering them. What changed your mind?
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Old November 7th, 2008, 03:11 PM   #53
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Easy, producing a wider variety of them and posting them on our blog is exactly what changed. In the past I wasn't sure about them, but now I'm 100% converted. They are, in my opinion, the single best marketing tool for what we do! :)

Good memory!
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Old November 7th, 2008, 03:23 PM   #54
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Hey,


Only for certain things! I just remember thinking at the time that if you ever tried them you'd love it. You're either addicted to them or hate doing them. I don't know anyone really that is somewhere in between, but you need to try it to find out.
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Old November 7th, 2008, 03:26 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Bruce Patterson View Post
Travis. I completely understand that markets are different - I market directly to many different markets myself and have to adjust my sales pitch for most of them. But, if the population is there (what is the population in your target market?) then it DOES boil down to a sales-pitch since it's fair to say that video is an afterthought in nearly EVERY market. This makes your situation no different than many others, unless you are marketing to a town of 5000. Just trying to be helpful.

"People don't know what they want until you show it to them." - Steve Jobs

Maybe the brides are asking for only ceremony/reception because that's all they know. If you can show them the high quality of your work and let them see how it can be done differently with your company, you are setting yourself up for success.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if you're trying to sell a car to someone who is perfectly happy with the taking the bus every day, you have to start by selling them on the concept of the car .. you can't just start off by trying to sell them a top-of-the-line Mercedes.

I've mentioned on here before that when I meet with couples I generally blow them away with my work. So for me at least, difficulty in selling add on services like SDE's and save the dates and love stories isn't a matter of quality. It's matter of priority. I've got my work cut out for me just to change their priority on GETTING A VIDEO in the first place, and that makes it really difficult to work on changing the next priority .. and getting them to value the add on services.

I will admit I'm not the best salesperson on the planet, that's for sure. I do pretty well, but I'm sure there are people out there that could outsell me in a heartbeat. Perhaps those of you having such good fortune with selling SDE's are just better at sales?
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Old November 7th, 2008, 05:06 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Travis Cossel View Post
Perhaps those of you having such good fortune with selling SDE's are just better at sales?
In my experience if they've seen a decent sde in person no salesmanship is necessary.
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Old November 7th, 2008, 05:33 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Joel Peregrine View Post
In my experience if they've seen a decent sde in person no salesmanship is necessary.
So in other words, start doing SDE's for free and you'll eventually start booking them? I can respect that strategy, but I'm still not convinced that it will work everywhere. Like I already said, I "wow" couples with add on videos all the time, but they rarely purchase those upgrades. Maybe it's somehow different with SDE's, since they are live at the event.
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Old November 7th, 2008, 05:41 PM   #58
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I know what you mean Travis, as I have been in your position before as well, but I do think SDEs are unique in this respect. We've booked packages that I don't think we would have come close to booking had we not shown an SDE at their friends wedding. Add to that, the pricing of the package they often want is considerably more than their budget, so it also helps ease them into the investment required to get a well done wedding film and photography.

Our SDEs have helped us travel the world this past year and some of those locations were towns exactly as you mentioned, and some of the couples that hired us certainly had a very tough time doing so.

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Old November 7th, 2008, 05:53 PM   #59
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That makes sense, and the one reason I would want to do SDE's is for the education they deliver to wedding guests on what is possible with video. For me personally, selling the SDE is only part of the battle.

Finding time to edit an SDE is probably the bigger challenge for me. In my area the reception almost always immediately follows the ceremony, and I usually only get 30 minutes to set up for the ceremony after pre-ceremony activities. The dinner portion of the reception is also usually only 30-45 (and often even less) minutes long before they start doing the first dance or toasts. So I've yet to see how to actually produce a quality SDE with that kind of time schedule.

I know most of you use extra assistants to help out with the SDE, but I have a hard enough time finding a competent assistant just to be 2nd camera op. Trying to find TWO competent assistants for the same day would be quite the task.

I know maybe it sounds like I'm just making excuses, but really I'm just trying to be realistic about what I can and can't do. Time is a major issue with my weddings, and I have a hard time finding assistants that I would trust to get the important shots without me backing them up. If it was just a matter of me working harder on the wedding day, I'd be fine with that. But I'm very concerned about the real possibility that attempting SDE's will divert enough time and attention to hurt the quality of the product that my couple actually paid for.
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Old November 7th, 2008, 07:11 PM   #60
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Travis,
Don't mention it to the clients and just try to pull one off first. This won't set you up for failure and will give you a good idea on timing etc... If it goes well introduce it as a surprise and they will be that much more emotional and grateful because of no expectations.

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