DSLR for Weddings
 

I know it probably be discussed somewhere on these forums, but I am not sure where. Anyhow I would let your guys (and girls) input on which DSLRs you would advise to use for Wedding Videography. I have been leaning toward the Canon t3i. I will be using it mainly for Video. I would like a camera body for around $1000, It needs to be able to record for about an hour straight with out stopping or overheating.

Also as far as lens go. I would like a good lens (500 to 700) dollars, I would also like to get a Prime 50mm 1.4f.

So lets hear it, should i go with Nikon, Canon, or Sony?

I don't have any lens so I will be starting from scratch. Thanks for your input!

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

We use Nikon D7000s and Panasonic GH2s.

The image from the Nikon is beautiful. The camera is very well built and native support for the F mount gives you access to a plethora of old AI-S manual optics that are both cheap and amazing. The Nikon 50mm f1.2 AI-S is my favorite lens. The downsides are that the camera's handling in video is odd (you can't change the aperture on G type lenses while in live view) and the compression is a little high (though you can smooth it out with noise reduction). We've never had one overheat though you are limited to 20minutes per clip. Body only you are looking at about $1200.

The Panasonic GH2 is a great video camera. You can record as long as you like limited by memory card and battery. You can adapt any lenses to it and it is very small and light. The image is very sharp as long as you couple it with good lenses. The downside is that the smaller sensor is limited in dynamic range and noise performance. Compression is very good though but AVCHD is a bit unwieldy. You can get them for about $900.

Canon and Sony cameras are good too. I don't think you can really go wrong.

For lenses I would recommend at least a wide angle zoom, a standard prime, and a telephoto prime. For your T3i if that's the one you choose they would be:

Tokina 11-16 2.8
Sigma 30mm 1.4
Samyang 85mm 1.4

You can get these for the other cameras (or adapt them) as well. Additional lenses you should consider is a 50mm 1.4/1.2 and a 70/80-200 2.8.

Avoid variable aperture slow lenses and try to stick to lenses 2.8 and faster. Slower lenses make your life more difficult.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Tyson, if recording for over an hour without stopping is a deal breaker, then Canon cameras are out, as they need to be stopped and started every 12 minutes. This can be broken with the Magic Lantern firmware hack.

As for Sony, I have been reading some real good things about the Sony A77, as this camera has Image Stabilization (IS) built into the camera, so you get IS with ALL lenses, with or without IS. This camera doesn't record constantly, but it does record for 30 minutes straight before record needs to be pushed again.

For constant record times, the Panny GH2 seems to be the best going right now. As it will record continuous without stop.

Keep in mind though that these cameras are not video cameras, so it's of course best to treat them as photo cameras. Manual control over the picture is MUCH more important than a video camera. Especially constant focus. So if you don't know photography, then I suggest that you read up and learn about f-stop, exposure, and working with light. As these will yield yo the best results.

We use 1 Canon T2i and a pair of Sony NX5Us for filming. The Canon T2i is strictly used for creative filmic shots, and the NX5U is used for the bulk of the filming. If I wasn't a solo shooter, then I might look into all DSLRs. But for run and gun shooting DSLRs requires much more planning and hands on than a video camera needs.
Personally I would rather work with a video camera such as the AF100 of F3. But funds don't allow it at this time.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Tyson - I shoot with the T3i. I think it's a good value as it has the same video guts as the bigger Canon brothers 7D and 5DmII. I'd save up for a 24-70 2.8 zoom (or similar focal length with another brand) as this is my most versatile lens for run and gun wedding work. You can also pick up some cheap nikon primes and use with an adapter. I have a nikon 50 1.4 that I bought for $125 that produces amazing images.

Art

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

I have been shooting with the AF100 and and the GH2, both AVCHD, and I don't know what you mean by "unwieldy". I have tons of hours on these cams, and I don't see a drawback with the footage. Good quality, grades pretty nice in my opinion, and noise is very acceptable in my experiences, even on the highest ISO settings.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

My Canon 60D hates brickwork, roof tiles and any fine detail in foliage etc - the moiré effects are horrifying. Do be aware of this limitation before you plunge into weddings because the run 'n' gun nature of a lot of this work means you might be tempted to abandon the differential focus route to make sure you capture the unfolding action.

The GH2 is better in this regard, but in my view it's still not the movie camera for the unexpected.

tom.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

I can only speak on the Canon.

If you are going to shoot weddings, you will need TWO DSLRs. It's not worth the risk of overheating. Just keep in mind the time limit, which seems to be a deal-breaker for you. Getting into weddings you should have two cameras anyway, makes life much easier and safer. If you are concerned about budget get a NICE 3rd party lens like the Tamron 17-50 2.8. The Canon 50mm and 55-250mm are awesome lenses as well.

JS

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Tyson, as has been said, if you want to shoot for an hour or more continuously, as I do for Catholic Masses, the GH2 isn't just your best option, it's the only option, unless I'm not aware of a DSLR that can do the same thing.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Thanks for all your input! We are currently using Sony FX7s and they are terrible in low light! After I watch the videos using DSLRs it about makes me sick. I thought I had pretty decent video quality until I watched a few videos that were shot with DSLRs. I know they are more work but I think I am ready for the challenge! :) I just need to decide with one to go with!

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the FX7 (honestly one of my favorite cameras ergonomically and feature wise) is getting quite relatively OLD... and virtually ANY recent backlit CMOS sensor based camera can probably beat it in low light and image quality. Any of the XR/CX5xx series or the newer CX7xx would easily outperform it.

Depending on your budget and goals, you might take a look at the Sony VG20 (just released, large sensor like a DSLR, but in a video camera format, meaning no time limits, and likely no heat issues). One cheap way to get your feet wet might be a new NEX5n (not the older "5") - it's getting rave reviews, and has nifty features like peaking to help with focusing. Not a DSLR (a mirrorless design), but big CMOS, and interchangeable lenses, plus you can buy lens adapters and mount a LOT of different glass on it...



The minute you start down the DSLR road, you'll find some obstacles - most have heat issues IF you're in a hot environment, some more serious than others - it comes from having a big sensor in a tight, sealed, relatively small body. Other than the GH2, I think you'd have heat as at least a possible issue.

I don't know of ANY still camera that doesn't also hit a time limit (again excluding the GH2), Sonys will go to 29 minutes, IF the heat thing doesn't bite you first (turn off the steady shot, or you're looking at far less than that on the Alpha bodies, NEX with in lens stabilization should be better, though there have been reports of heating...).

Are you prepared to manually focus? It's an issue for most DSLR's, excluding the SLT and NEX series (and again the GH2?), depending on what lens(es) you're using.

Before you dive in, you also need to realize that you're committing to at least some degree to a "system" of body and lenses. And part of getting good low light performance is FAST lenses, faster lenses, and oh yeah, really fast and (probably) expensive lenses.

Don't forget image stabilization - whether in the body (Sony Alphas) or in the lenses... all of these factor into the ultimate cost of your "rig" (and if you want a "rig" to stabilize the potentially awkward still camera form factor... more $$).

Not trying to be discouraging, but when both your "deal breaker" criterion rule out almost every option out there... it would be wise to do a LOT more research - the good news is there are a lot of good options in newer video cams AND dual use still/video cameras... if you're prepared to accept what they will and won't do.

Fortunately, DVi has forums with extensive user experience, no matter WHAT camera you're wanting to explore...

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Could get a Canon G10 videocamera and while not a DSLR, for $1200 it would destroy the 1/4" sensors in the FX7, which is not a native widescreen sensor to begin with. Glad you like the camera Dave but to date still the least favorite of all my camera purchases. Difference would be night and day. Add a XA10 with XLR and a second G10, and for $4400 dollars he'd have three matching cameras that would make his current video look so bad he'd wonder why he didn't do it six months ago.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

I have been using 3 T2i and now 3 T3i for weddings for the past 2 years. It's more difficult to shoot than before using XH-A1. However, the result is very rewarding.

From my experience comparing with shooting with transitional camcorder,
- Manual exposure
- Manual focus (fixed by Magic Lantern focus peaking feature)
- Can't use LANC controller
- Audio (fixed in T3i)
- Record 12 minutes at a time (fixed by Magic Lantern)
- Camera view angle (fixed with T3i)

Also you will have to invest in some prime lens or fixed aperture lens., I like zoom lens so I bought

Canon 18-55mm F2.8,
Canon 70-200mm F2.8L,
Sigma 17-50mm F2.8
Tokina 11-16mm F2.8

T3i 3X crop zoom feature also very helpful with shooting with my 18-55mm 2.8 lens.

I also use battery grip for all my T3i. It doubles the battery life and make the camera not toyish.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

So If I wanted to just sell my FX7 and upgrade to something that provides better low light coverage, records to memory cards, and provides great video quality, what would you guys advise?

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

If you are think about canon DSLR, t3i and 60D are popular choices.

Not only the camera body, fast lens is more important than just the camera body.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Well I have been looking around and I think I might be changing my mind from the T3i to the GH2. My only question is what do you guys use for audio? Im guessing there is a audio input on the GH2s.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Yes, there is an audio input, and it has manual control, unlike most DSLRs, though it is via the menu. I keep the audio on 2 and then use the gain control on the mic to suit the environment.

You can use anything you want for audio, you just need a mini to mini-mini adapter, available at radio shack for $3.99, or something like that. You can buy angled ones somewhere, forget where I got mine.

For a shotgun, Sennhieser makes a tiny mic, and the Rode Videomic Pro is also well suited for the camera.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

If you're happy with the ergonomics of the FX7 then the natural upgrade would be to the NX5 - bigger chips, same 20x zoom, better sensitivity and most of all handling that you'd be familiar with.

Of course if you want to go the DSLR (or GH2) route, you've really got to think about an audio box that will allow you two separate audio channels for radio and shotgun. This will be just the start of the long road to adapt what's essentially a still camera into a movie camera.

As others have said here, the results can indeed be rewarding, but shooting real-time events with such cameras is more 'dangerous'. You've got to be able to balance the danger against the visual look of the finished product.

tom.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

As Tom notes, XLRs are nice, but before I had dual inputs on my new videocamera, I simply dedicated a cam for the wireless, and ran shotguns on the other three. XLRs are nice, not necessary.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Just for the record apparently the T3i does not share the T2i's heating problem. It has been reported by many users that is doesn't overheat under normal conditions (e.g., http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...questions.html). It didn't overheat for me when I used it to shoot a sweet-16 birthday party (a big event in a hall). But it did "shut down" (stop recording) a couple of times. This was not heat related because I was able to start recording again immediately and continue shooting many more minutes with it. As explained by Nigel below, this was most likely because I hit the file size limit of 4GB, which is after about 12 minutes of recording time in HD (the manual actually says 11 min).

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Alan, is there input level control on the t3i, or is it auto gain?

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Tyson, I think there are a couple of questions you need to answer to pick the right camera. I think there are two styles of deliverables for wedding work. One is the traditional long form edit with video cameras. The other is a short form edit. I would either go on vimeo and do a search (and subscribe to the wedding group) for gh2 or canon wedding videos. Or look at the people that post on this forum and see which style matches your taste.

In our area, we are competing with the established long form videographers, so to be competitive, we differentiate ourselves by offering a short form film product. We also have a gh1 for a long form edit, which is usually what the brides parents are looking for. The t3i is designed to mimic a film camera. The image is soft compared to the gh1/2 and its easier to get a wide angle shallow DOF on a full frame sensor. In contrast the gh2 is sharp (think nfl coverage, not Hollywood film), but you can make it look filmic in post.

If you go with the short form edit style, 12 minutes is more than you need when shooting. The moire issues on 11 weddings have only been an issue twice, but I live on the west coast, so not a lot of bricks. The lcd on the t3i is off the camera, so it overheats less, but its standard practice to leave our cameras inside the cabin of our cars (air conditioned) not in the trunk. And out of sunlight when at the event. The weather is good out here, and it has never been an issue for us.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

For the record the T3i/600D does have a 12 minute limit. The limit is actually 4GB file size which is typically around 12 minutes video give or take. That will be why your camera shut down unexpectedly a couple of times.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

I'm not the best person to answer this. Although I've used the T3i, I don't own one. IIRC the manual said you could adjust audio level.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

The camera stops recording (which is what I meant by "shut down") when it hits the 4GB limit? That's really unfriendly behaviour. I would have expected it to simply start another file, as every HD camcorder I know of does. In any case, I've amended my post. I had almost always seen the 12 minute limit mentioned in association with the temperature problem, so I linked the two. Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding.

PS. Too bad you can't select a "quality" level (Mbps) for video on the Canon cameras like you can with most camcorders. 44Mbps is overkill for a lot of situations and I would happily trade less Mbps for more recording time. Something closer to 24Mbps would be fine for 1080p24/25/30 or 720p50/60.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

I switched from T2i and T3i. For T2i in any hot summer day, overheat occurs regularly. For my T3i, I only experienced once.

T3i has manual audio control. You can set auto gain, or disabled it to adjust the input level.

I believe GH2 uses the 2.5mm audio input jack, not the standard 3.5mm headphone jack. But there're cheap converter for that. Also GH2 uses Micro Four Thirds line of lens. There isn't a wide range of lens selection than Canon EF lens.

Magic Lantern has a feature to continue recording at the 4GB/12min break. It will lost a second or so during the gap.

I always shoot with 2 cameras. So I can take turn to stop and start recording on both cameras. I was worrying so much about the 12 minute issue. But then, once I start using it, it isn't much of a problem. In fact, I don't see that's a problem at all too (especially with magic lantern).

If you are interested in getting any RODE microphone, we are RODE authorized dealer. I can always offer some discount to DVinfo members.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Alen one important thing to remember, is that the Canon DSLRs are NOT video cameras.
Yes, you can shoot video with them, but they ares still photo cameras, and as such do have some short comings.

With that said, we use DSLRs like video cameras because they can produce fabulous imagery.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Taky, thanks for addressing my audio question, I've been incorrectly saying the GH2 is the only DSLR form factor cam with adjustable audio, I was wrong. Maybe it doesn't have an audio jack? There was some aspect of the audio I thought that people criticized about the Canon's audio, maybe I'm mis-remembering again.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

To answer a few of you guys questions. I would be using it mainly for my Wedding Trailers. I would also use the camera to take a few pics for the DVD Labels and DVD Cases.

As far as Audio, I have a Wireless Setup that I would plug into on of my other cameras during the Ceremony. So I would probably go with the Rode.

Am I nuts for wanting to switch? Im young and love any kind of electronic gadget! I have been running Video cameras for the last 5-8 years.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Thank you for the information in this thread. After reading this, I have decided to not order the Panasonic GH3 with the default 12-35mm lens which is quite costly, and instead get the ones you recommended on the first page:

Tokina 11-16 2.8
Sigma 30mm 1.4
Samyang 85mm 1.4

I need all the light I can get for those receptions (churches are not well lit here either), and so I thought the Sigma 30mm would do a better job there than the Pana lens.

I noticed the Samyang only has manual focus, do you think that will represent a problem? I heard the GH3 has quite decent AF capabilities, but perhaps you are better off setting it manually when using the 85mm? I really have no clue here, that's why I ask before placing a substantial order. Thank you!

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

I have a tokina 11-16mm f2.8 for sale. Email me at takybb@gmail.com if interested.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Thank you but I live in Eastern Europe :)

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

With a dslr and a fast lens I wouldn't recommend doing anything with autofocus, you need to set it manually. Autofocus is only good if there is enough light and when your iris is further closed so you have a increased dof, focus on dslr's is one of the most tricky things to get right, something you should not let the camera handle.

Re: DSLR for Weddings
 

Have one question regarding the Samyang 85mm 1.4 - our online lens store only says "mount type: Nikon" - the same site offers for sale 2 Nikon -> MFT adapters, the Nikon G / DX -> MFT and Nikon F -> MFT. Which one should I get for the Samyang to fit it on a GH3?

Thank you.