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Old November 19th, 2012, 05:50 AM   #1
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Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Hi Guys

Most have already seen the new Sony NEXEA50 which is essentially a shoulder mount video camera with interchangeable lenses and a 16.8 megapixel still sensor in it.

What do the wedding fraternity here think of this as a run 'n gun camera ..it seems to have the advantages of a video camera like servo zoom (yes, with a proper rocker) shoulder mount form factor OR handheld (the mount slides under the camera ...it has what looks like a fairly good LCD/loupe setup for good framing (loupe comes off too) It comes with an 18-200 zoom but quite slow (F3.5)

What would you guys expect from this lens and the big sensor in a Church compared to a faster F1.8/1.9 and 1/4" or 1/3" chips on a conventional camera?? Better?? Worse???

The New Sony NEX-EA50UH Camcorder | BH inDepth

It has all manual PLUS autofocus, autoiris and auto ISO (in movie mode too!!) and AGC and has proper XLR inputs.

Where can you see downfalls for weddings here for what I would call a hybrid (or maybe a BITSA??) It has a bit from DSLR's and a bit from video cameras, but it has caught my attention.

Comments ?? I know Don Bloom was eyeing it out too but a comment from our DSLR man Nigel would be interesting ?

Chris
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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:09 AM   #2
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

This looks really interesting. I've haven't used a Sony E series lens system, but it seems like the lens choices is rather limiting (if you wanted to use primes and not just the kit lens).

This part of that article is really interesting:

"The rocker zoom is a familiar feature for long-time camcorder users, but those who are familiar with interchangeable lens systems may wonder, what good is a zoom lever if you're using a prime lens or a manual zoom? Sony's answer to that question is a lossless digital zoom. The effect is achieved by cropping the image sensor in real-time, which changes the angle-of-view with no sacrifice in resolution. This is possible because the sensor has a native resolution thatís much higher than 1080p to begin with."

The ability to digitally zoom without loss of quality would be fantastic.

Daniel
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Old November 19th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #3
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Thanks Daniel

My initial concern is that it's still a still camera chip inside a video camera and after attending a talk by Alaister Chapman of Sony, my friend Philip says that the still camera chip is still noisy for video....The still camera chip, says Philip, satisfies the still guys by having lots of tiny pixels which have a low capacity each (not an issue on stills) Video however to achieve a big dynamic range needs bigger pixels that have a higher capacity each.

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Old November 19th, 2012, 08:24 AM   #4
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Good Review and pics here:

HD Warrior Blog Archiv The NEW Sony NEX-EA50 (£3000)

and here:

http://nofilmschool.com/2012/10/sony-nex-ea50-footage/

I'm looking to pension off my Sony Z1 soon - this might be in the running! - lack of ND filters might be an issue though

Pete
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Old November 19th, 2012, 08:43 AM   #5
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post
My initial concern is that it's still a still camera chip inside a video camera and after attending a talk by Alaister Chapman of Sony, my friend Philip says that the still camera chip is still noisy for video....The still camera chip, says Philip, satisfies the still guys by having lots of tiny pixels which have a low capacity each (not an issue on stills) Video however to achieve a big dynamic range needs bigger pixels that have a higher capacity each.
Is this different than a DSLR?
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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:12 PM   #6
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Hi Daniel

I'm a total dummy when it comes to DSLR sensor technology so I was simply quoting Philips comments from the Sony "talk" .... Hopefully Nigel Barker will comment here ?? Nigel shoots on Canon5DIII's so I do really respect any opinion from him.

Thanks for the links Peter.... The lack of ND's for me isn't a big deal as I shoot solo so the last thing I want is a camera shouting to switch in ND's which I'm busy with the 2nd camera! The Panny AC-130 switchable ND's were a nighmare to use at weddings!

Chris
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Old November 20th, 2012, 04:24 AM   #7
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

The sensor in the NEX-EA50 is indeed that from a stills camera (Sony Alpha NEX-5N). They already put the same internals in a consumer camcorder the VG20. The disadvantage of using a stills sensor & downsampling is that you get moire & aliasing unless you can perform the sort of magic that the Canon engineers have done with the 5D3.

It is true that theoretically the more pixels you have then the smaller they are for the same sized sensor & that large pixels can be spaced further apart so that there is less interference from adjacent pixels & thus less noise. However that is all theoretical & not necessarily true in practice.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 06:42 PM   #8
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Hi Nigel

Thanks for the insight and comments. I watched a video done in Europe at a trade show and the presenter was wearing a striped shirt..WOW the moire is really really bad .....At weddings you have no control what the people wear and imagine a groom deciding to wear a pin stripe suit...the result reminded me of the good ole VHS days!! Yeah I think Sony has a lot more work to do before they catch up with Canon's 5DIII

Pity, cos the form factor is really nice and I love the look and weight of the camera.

Guess it's a no-go for doing weddings!!

Chris
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Old November 20th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #9
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

I've seen a few tv commericals for the Sony NEX-5 still camera. I would have to assume it's the same sensor as the NEX-EA50 since both do stills and video and have the NEX classification.
I wish any of the camera mfgrs would come to realize that some of us prefer the shoulder type factor but want and need something that is not necessarily capable of doing stills and something that you can hang a wireless receiver off of. While I do a fair amount of weddings I also do a lot of other work that I need a shoulder cam much like the JVC HM/HD series form factor. Hmmm, maybe I'll just get a 7XX series with something to go with it (small cam as a 2nd for weddings) and just be done with it.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 09:45 PM   #10
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Westside AV has a superb shoulder mount for the FS700 that turns it into a shoulder camera.

I question the assertion this is a run and gun wedding camera. Without NDs and frequent moire/aliasing, the camera is just plain fiddly and you'll come home with missed shots.

ND filters are important for run and gun. They let you move indoors and outdoors at the flick of a switch and not have to fuss with any additional glass on the end of your lenses. No ND Filters means your camera will blow out when the house lights come up or you move outside.

Also, last I looked at the Sony e-mount camcorders and DSLRs, the A mount adapter that lets you get to nice Sony A mount glass doesn't let you use an aperture lower than 3.5 (this might be only when AF or AE is enabled, I forget). SO you should check that our first.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 11:47 PM   #11
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Ouch on the FS700 price as a rig!!! it's a bit overpriced for me!!

Don?? The JVC is still pricey and according to George Kilroy the low light sucks!! At wedding receptions I really need a more sensitive camera so the 700 series isn't really a solution.

There isn't a lot around with shoulder mount and the Sony really did look good BUT what will brides say about moire ..sure they would pick that up???

My HMC82's are brilliant cameras and great colour and pristine image BUT at a miserable equivalent ISO of around 40 - 60 they struggle at wedding receptions...other than that they are the best value for money I have ever spend (on my 3rd set already and never an issue ) I replace every year to offset tax BTW!!!

Chris
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Old November 21st, 2012, 07:00 AM   #12
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

I've used the JVC HD100 and 200 series camera at weddings and other low light type of activities, corporate social gathers where the lighting isn't much different than a wedding and while the HD series in particular the 100/110 isn't good in low light situations the 200/250 is far better and no I haven't used the HM7XX series but I know some folks that do and according to them, the low light is even better on that than the HD2XX.
I'm working on some things right now that might just make my decision for me but honestly, other than a PMW3XX series (which I can't really afford anyway) I'm trying to make a choice between the NEX-EA50 or the JVC-HM7XX. Nothing concrete yet but close and soon. (I hope). I'll let you know!
BTW for the corporate type stuff, most of it is MOS, talking heads so lighting isn't an issue. For 99.9% of the stuff I've got some sort of additional lighting. Hell even at a wedding reception I've got additional lighting so unless the camera absolutley sucks in low light that issue really doesn't bother me.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 08:08 AM   #13
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Just to pop my take on this Don.

I use HM700s and I have in the past mentioned to Chris that I was disappointed with the low light performance, however as with many things it is all relative. I had come to the JVC from larger DV cams: Panasonic DV200s which have well know good low light abilities so the difference was very noticeable. However before I bought the 700s I had a HD201 and that was really poor, the HM700 is much better, so much so that I sold the HD201 for another 700.
Having used them now for a couple of years and had chance to see how others perform (including EX3), I don't think they are that far away from others. When I do need a bit more I through up the gain and if necessary smooth it out with Neat Video.
However I have found that in general my Sony CX550s out perform most other camcorders when it comes to capturing clean images in low light conditions.

Hm700 are around £4000 in UK (before batteries/power supply though). The NEX-EA50 will be about £3500 all up.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 08:22 AM   #14
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Thanks Guys

'BIG SIGH' There isn't very much on the market that are shoulder mount so I did get excited when I saw the Sony... I really do like the form factor and I think it will do well in low light with the right lenses ..the Sony promo movie shows the 18-200 at a wedding ceremony and it looks pristine to me BUT all promos look like a million dollars!! We tend to get very technical on the forum down to each and every pixel but the bride on the other hand (or even commercial shoots) couldn't care less about tech specs as long as it looks good.

Am I fooling myself or would Sony really release a camera that produces such bad moire and aliasing that it's un-watchable ?? I would surely doubt it!! I'm just wondering if we are 'nit picking' here and the footage that the EA50 produces is perfectly adequate for "normal" viewers and clients rather than "tech heads" that we tend to be???

I really would like to see a wedding shot on the EA50 ....it's half the price of the JVC and has to be better in low light and has the weight and form factor that seems almost perfect. No offence but the JVC is very old technology.

I have seen on other forums people talk about Panasonic's new GH3 and it's terrible moire on video shoots so it not just this camera .... Can you minimise the unwanted effects of shooting video on a large format sensor with NLE plugins or is that a pipe dream??

It will be interesting what you select Don (maybe get one of each and test them both for us???)

Chris
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Old November 21st, 2012, 09:06 AM   #15
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Hi there Chris.

I can see that you are in perpetual search of the ideal camera and are happy to change frequently in the hope of finding it, whereas I tend to find one I'm happy with and stick with it until it either shows signs of faulty performance or I get complaints from my customers.

As you know I am not taking on weddings for next year so I'm out of that race at the moment (though who knows what will be in the future) but I will be keeping an eye on where the technology takes the industry. I thought that the DSLR/Videocam debate had settled down but notice that it is still as lively as ever.

The last work I did in England was with a crew of recent college leavers who work exclusively with handheld videocameras and DSLRs. It was interesting to find that whereas I find shoulder mounted cams the most natural and comfortable to use they found them awkward and cumbersome as they have been schooled in the use of handhelds and find that to be the most normal way to work.
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