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Wedding / Event Videography Techniques
Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old March 5th, 2007, 11:54 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Alastair Brown View Post
Another thing that annoys me, and I think shows real disregard for the occasion, is when someone has obviously not made the slightest bit of effort into putting together a speech. Fair enough some people HATE talking in public. Even if you do, it makes it easier if you at least have a few ideas scribbled down before the event.
Totally agree with that!!
I've had grooms steal 90% of their speech from speeches on our demo DVD - none of the guests would know that ofcourse - but on the night when I hear the same lines I usually peer over at my partner on the B Cam and she's thinking the same thing I'm thinking; what a lazy bugger. The worse thing is that we're more embarassed than he is when his new wife realises he stole his lines from our demo. Eeeeeekk!!!

At the end of the day it's all part of shooting weddings, and I'm thankful I get to make my living from something I enjoy.

Cheers
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Old March 6th, 2007, 01:47 AM   #32
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"but on the night when I hear the same lines I usually peer over at my partner on the B Cam and she's thinking the same thing I'm thinking; what a lazy bugger"

LOL
Hey Paul, good to see another sydneysider :)
Check your email :)buger, i cant send you an email..
can you send me one? Im close to you and im looking for a reliable shooter for one particular wedding in April. My other guy pulled out on me
If youre intrested,, feel free to drop a line.
cheers
P
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Old March 6th, 2007, 06:34 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson View Post
hers one of my biggeset peves..
chargin a client 2500... ok fair enough.. but then they have the audacity to try to bring the price down or get afew extras thrown in..
nwo thats annoying on its own accord..
But to add salt to the wound, whats worse than dealing with this is... is the same clients paying 7grand for a photographer whos only there for 8 hrs...
No question about heir price and no haggling required...

typical scenario...

Photography...
"7grand thanks"
"no worries, here you go"
See u at the wedding..

video
$2500 thanks
what?
It comes to $2500...
can i have a discount..
No
I wonder what is the logic behind people's sub/conscious thinking when they compare prices for photo & video work? I mean everybody can take a picture & get it developed, try that with a video. I just can't believe people would be ready to pay $7k for a photo shoot & not be willing to pay a 1/3 for a complete video package. Makes sense to teach your Mrs how to use a camera & offer a complete package.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 08:37 AM   #34
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"I wonder what is the logic behind people's sub/conscious thinking when they compare prices for photo & video work?"

Photography has always een considered an artform in the professional sense.. whereas video.. well, theres always been a stigma about its credibility as a form of art. Also with pictures, people have a physical album to hold onto. somethign they can grab and hang onto.. whereas with a dvd, its "new" and it doesnt carry teh kind of "physical" sentiment a photo does.
You cant place a dvd on your desk and see it and admire it, you cant pin a dvd on your wall and showcase it in your home...

theres also the issue of price..
people dont eeeeeeEXPECT video to be of high quality.. and are happy with that compromise if it saves them some cash.. BUT when they see high quality stuff, they DONT want to pay becuase they believe they can get teh same results from a dodgy handycam.. Its funny, i shoot a wedding and i use no less than 2 cameras each job.. most of teh onlookers, guests and clients are usually impressed and believe their money is well spent.. BUT the funny thing is that theyve paid a hellofalot more for their photos and the photog is using consumer gear with crap glass.. then i whip out my 5d (along with these video cameras) and only THEN do people REALLY take notice..
Its true what they say, the "bigger" the camera the more impact it has on people s perception of what you do.. Thing is, ive learnt to use the small 1/3 camcorder formfactor to my advantage and its now a marketing tool for me.

at teh end of the day, its all about attitude..
consider that 85% of weddings will have an official photographer, and of that 85%, only 15% wil have a pro video as well..
Its a HUGE market, but the statistics speak for themselves. Hence the reason why im getting back into stills.
Id rather work smarter, not harder.. and now with HD video delivery coming to the fore with PS3, justifying a price hike for this "naturally evolving" format will be very difficult as there are morons out there who are already offering HD at SD prices, simply becuase they need the folio

theyre setting a precedent which will continue to ruin the industry.. it happened with hi8, digital8, dv, and now i can clearly see it with hdv
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Old March 14th, 2007, 05:57 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Roman Rowlands View Post
I wonder what is the logic behind people's sub/conscious thinking when they compare prices for photo & video work?
Video just doesn't have the history - your parents don't have a wedding video or film, right ?

As for haggling, the video booking is secondary to the photo booking, and after a few vendors, the wedding financier becomes experienced as well as sensitized to cost and wanting to put up a fight with every vendor beefing up their packages to a certain pricepoint as soon as the word wedding is uttered.

As a groom going through this process myself, you see $1000 here, $1000 there, and you're wondering no one really cares that you want a simple, inexpensive wedding. You're just the guy in the dark suit in the show with the endless book of checks, all paid upfront on vendor contract terms.

Here is a sample of my thoughts yesterday :
"What !? Floorsweep flower petals will cost $100 ? You can't get them to throw them in for free or $25? Allright, I'm getting my extras from the next guy that tries to sell me something expensive. Where is that videographer ..."

Oh the fun.
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Old March 14th, 2007, 06:16 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson View Post
Photography...
"7grand thanks"
"no worries, here you go"
See u at the wedding..
No
If it helps you feel better, I also tortured the photographers. Many try to sell "fine art" photography to me at reasonable per hour prices, concealing their true cost structure of selling you multi-thousand dollar packages of prints that are most definitely CostCo. I want to pay them a reasonable price for their time and expertise without having the digital image files held hostage. I told them I wouldn't book them unless they had a method for me to own the digital files. Most were flabbergasted and appeared insulted. Get real. That request will be standard in short time. My future photo albums will be the laptop computer, HDTV and its "screen saver", digital picture frames, cell phone, etc.

One photographer offered processed full-rez JPG files as well as the RAW files upon my request. His on-line portfolio of over twenty weddings spoke well for him. He charged for his event time and post-processing. So, I booked him.
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Old March 14th, 2007, 06:38 AM   #37
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HD delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson View Post
"I wonder what is the logic behind people's sub/conscious thinking when they compare prices for photo & video work?"

Id rather work smarter, not harder.. and now with HD video delivery coming to the fore with PS3, justifying a price hike for this "naturally evolving" format will be very difficult as there are morons out there who are already offering HD at SD prices, simply becuase they need the folio

theyre setting a precedent which will continue to ruin the industry.. it happened with hi8, digital8, dv, and now i can clearly see it with hdv
I don't agree, but I'm on the client side as a groom these days. The reason it happens is because it can. Manufacturers are offering you HDV products that are in the same price range as their SD counterparts of yesterday. What is the price premium on a product for more when you are equal to your competition ?

By the time you can deliver HD DVDs, the whole HDV product chain will cost the same as the SD product chain did when DVDs became a viable distribution medium. I've processed my own HDV->SD videos, and they don't take much more effort, only more of today's computer effort.

What do you think about offering more different types of distributions that actually take more effort and skill than the client can muster ? I'm talking about edits for different screen sizes, not running the project output through DVD Fab Platinum to output to iPod or PlayStationPortable.
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Old March 14th, 2007, 07:29 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis View Post
If it helps you feel better, I also tortured the photographers. Many try to sell "fine art" photography to me at reasonable per hour prices, concealing their true cost structure of selling you multi-thousand dollar packages of prints that are most definitely CostCo. I want to pay them a reasonable price for their time and expertise without having the digital image files held hostage. I told them I wouldn't book them unless they had a method for me to own the digital files. Most were flabbergasted and appeared insulted. Get real. That request will be standard in short time. My future photo albums will be the laptop computer, HDTV and its "screen saver", digital picture frames, cell phone, etc.

One photographer offered processed full-rez JPG files as well as the RAW files upon my request. His on-line portfolio of over twenty weddings spoke well for him. He charged for his event time and post-processing. So, I booked him.
in regard to offering hgh res raw, many photogs use the argument that they make their money by charging for prints... thing is, i been getting bookings left right and centre becuase i DONT print.. i give raws and processed Jpgs, and thats all i do..
less work, similar money and no headaches with waiting
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Old March 14th, 2007, 07:48 AM   #39
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"I don't agree, but I'm on the client side as a groom these days. The reason it happens is because it can. Manufacturers are offering you HDV products that are in the same price range as their SD counterparts of yesterday. What is the price premium on a product for more when you are equal to your competition ? "

Its not about the gear, its about the addition post processing requirements and the fact that your manufacturing more than just a simple DVD
Provide the goods in HD DVD or BD, and you must also delivery in SD. The additional encoding and hardware requirements to do this need to funded somehow.. a camera is one thing, but an entire workflow and delivery regime is another

"By the time you can deliver HD DVDs, the whole HDV product chain will cost the same as the SD product chain did when DVDs became a viable distribution medium. "

It took 4 years for DVDr to be priced at the level its at now.. burners about the same time.. in addition, its taken over 6 years for DVD to penetrate the consumer market as the "next" home theatre standard
HDV has been out now for over 2 years to those of us in the field of production, however viable delivery options have only been available for several months.. to this day HD authoring is still in the air... hell only recently did the BD consortium approve a "standard"

"What do you think about offering more different types of distributions that actually take more effort and skill than the client can muster ? "

This issue is confusion. Theyre already confused about what HD is, theyre already confused as to the compromises HDV has made to exist. They wouldnt understand the technical differences between XDcam/DVCPRohd/HDV
Most clients dont know the differences between LCd and Plasma, let alone the resolutions available, let alone the upcoming 2k and 4k res units
Most people wouldnt bother with BD or HD DVD unless they bought themselves a PS3, to which will hammer down the format as being the one of "choice" by consumers...

This debate on precedented behaviours and pricing based on formats and technology can go on and on.
But the fact remains that there are lowballers out there charging peanuts and operating at a loss to score the contract
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Old March 25th, 2007, 12:18 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Alex Sprinkle View Post
I haven't seen it on here, and maybe you guys are just a lot luckier than myself, but for the most part: photographers.

...

The first wedding I filmed had an AMAZING balcony around 3/4ths of the church, which was incredible! I decided to use this to my advantage, and so did the photgrapher. That's totally cool, except he kept trying to make conversation with me and some woman up there. I wanted to scream at him to shut his yapper and turn down that ridiculous electronic shutter sound that went off every 4 seconds.
I too deal with the photographer wanting to be in the same location in the balcony and not realizing that thier talking doesn't show up on still photos. The higher-end cameras also don't have an option to turn off the shutter sound, it's a mechanical thing, so I do my best in post to clean it up, but don't always get them all. I try to explain that it's the same as if I stood in front of thier shot and they had to Photoshop me out.
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 01:09 AM   #41
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In no particular order . . .

#1
Wedding ceremonies that aren't run they way they were practiced the night before at rehearsal (placement of people/things, order of the ceremonial parts, lighting, officiants that forget things, etc).

#2
Photographers getting in the way of shots or asking the b/g to do something before I finished getting my shot (my wife is an understanding photog and she still does this to me sometimes when we work a wedding together).

#3
Parents who let their kids play on/around my tripods like a bunch of little monkeys.

#4
Parents who let their kids run around on the dance floor during important events (first dance, bouquet toss, toasts, etc.).

#5
Having to charge so little for doing so much work. Must be nice to be a DJ and get $500+ for a few hours of work (especially for the DJ's that just suck).

#6
Photographers (my wife) not understanding that the wedding day is much more difficult for a photogapher. I worked 2 weddings as an assistant photog shooter for my wife, and it nearly made me switch to photography. It's so much easier to wait for great shots and nail them, than it is to hold a videocamera steady for that 5 minute toast or that 15 minute "money" dance. Not to mention we have to worry about audio in addition to what we see in the viewfinder. We must be crazy . . .
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 01:15 AM   #42
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speaking of speeches..
the other day i did a wedding which went to clockwork.. im saying EVERYTHING went to plan.. 2 ceremonies, the whole kit and kaboodle..

speaches come and voila.. EVERYONE just HAS TO HAVE something to say..
needless to say, 2 80minute tapes later (2 cams,) , the dancing started..
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 04:26 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson View Post
speaking of speeches..
the other day i did a wedding which went to clockwork.. im saying EVERYTHING went to plan.. 2 ceremonies, the whole kit and kaboodle..

speaches come and voila.. EVERYONE just HAS TO HAVE something to say..
needless to say, 2 80minute tapes later (2 cams,) , the dancing started..

Peter....you shoud write a book with all your wedding experiences.....I WOULD pay to buy that book! ;)

You should have pulled up a recliner chair for those speeches.

Keep em' coming....I love it.

Cheers- Joe
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 05:37 AM   #44
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hahahaahaha

I reckon we all pipe in and make a book, and the funds made can go to videographer counselling services.. lol
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Old April 3rd, 2007, 09:38 AM   #45
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1. Photographers who act like we're intruding at their event.

2. Wedding coordinators who turn the lights down even lower after we ask them to bring them up a little.

3. Hauling, packing and unpacking equipment over and over. Especially in August.
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