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What Happens in Vegas...
...stays in Vegas! This PC-based editing app is a safe bet with these tips.


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Old April 1st, 2008, 05:57 PM   #1
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Whites crushed on render

Hi,

I'm looking for practical advice for a problem I have.

On Vegas preview window everything looks good (see image Before-render.jpg) and after I render it to mp4 file via Mainconcept templates it comes out with highlights crushed (after-render.jpg). Can you help me achieve the look that I see in my preview window (Before-render.jpg)?

I havent messed with any RGB conversions. Only done a lot of color correction with color curves in Vegas 8. Original files are MXF files from EX1 camera.

Thank you!

Sami
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Old April 1st, 2008, 06:38 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sami Sanpakkila View Post
Hi,

I'm looking for practical advice for a problem I have.

I havent messed with any RGB conversions.
Sami
Oh yea?

http://glennchan.info/articles/vegas...or/v8color.htm
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Old April 1st, 2008, 06:48 PM   #3
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Sorry but I should have clarified that practical means step by step advice. I dont understand Glenns tables and the jargon.

Sami
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Old April 1st, 2008, 06:58 PM   #4
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We need one more bit of critical info.

Can you paste a screenshot of your project properties window? The one you get when you click File -> Properties.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 07:09 PM   #5
 
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dump vegas. you'll never get what you want without a lot of effort.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 07:17 PM   #6
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Bill...
I've been using Vegas for years....
And after more jumping around with levels and color space on my last project, I'm really starting to believe you...

I really hope Sony is listening. This really needs addressing.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 07:35 PM   #7
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We need one more bit of critical info.

Can you paste a screenshot of your project properties window? The one you get when you click File -> Properties.
Here you go. Thanks!
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Old April 1st, 2008, 07:36 PM   #8
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I'm curious. How do other programs handle this? I've used Canopus and Premiere Pro, and I never seem to recall having any issues. But to be honest, in working with Vegas Pro 8 in 32 bit mode, I've never had a problem rendering to DVD, mpeg4, or mpeg2.

But here's the thing. I do all my work in Vegas in 32 bit and Studio RGB. When I render to things that want studio RGB everything is perfect. When I render to things that want Computer RGB, they don't seem to spread the gamut, they just fit my signal inside the bigger color space, and everything works as intended.

I know this seems to be a big problem for folks, and maybe I am just lucky that my normal workflow makes it a non-issue.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 07:38 PM   #9
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When I render to things that want studio RGB everything is perfect. When I render to things that want Computer RGB,
Is Computer RGB for things on the web and computer screen and StudioRGB for things like DVD and broadcast?

Sami
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Old April 1st, 2008, 07:40 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Sami Sanpakkila View Post
Here you go. Thanks!
Yep, that's what I figured. You are working in an 8-bit project.

So your preview window is showing computer RGB. The full 0-255 colors. When you render to a format that is destined for broadcast, the values get clipped to what broadcast can show. On Glenn's chart that is Studio RGB or values from 16-235. A subset of the Computer RGB signals.

If you were working in Vegas with Studio RGB then you could output to any codec without the clipping. It's an ugly PITA problem. And one reason I stick to working in 32 bit mode.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 07:42 PM   #11
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Bingo. That's it exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sami Sanpakkila View Post
Is Computer RGB for things on the web and computer screen and StudioRGB for things like DVD and broadcast?

Sami
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Old April 1st, 2008, 07:51 PM   #12
 
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well, not exactly. There are codecs that EXPECT computer RGB and there are codecs that EXPECT studio RGB. It really makes no difference what your final distribution venue is; all that matters is what RGB range the final codec you're rendering to EXPECTS to see as input. As Sami has said, Glenn's article is way too confusing to use in day to day practical application.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 07:56 PM   #13
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well, not exactly. There are codecs that EXPECT computer RGB and there are codecs that EXPECT studio RGB. It really makes no difference what your final distribution venue is; all that matters is what RGB range the final codec you're rendering to EXPECTS to see as input. As Sami has said, Glenn's article is way too confusing to use in day to day practical application.
Ok,

Here is what I know.

I work with Cineform based AVI files on the timeline. I work in 32 bit only. I get no color shift that I can determine going to mpeg2, mpeg4, or WMV. By keeping a constant workflow, I eliminate problems and inconsistencies that could cost me time. Before I worked in Cineform, I worked with huffyuv compressed AVI files in the same workflow with the same results.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 08:04 PM   #14
 
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Cineform is the ONLY codec I use consistently, because it works consistently in Studio RGB. It's very predictable and accurate. While CFHD works in YUV color space, its I/O is studio RGB. Canopus HQ is an equally dependable and color accurate intermediate.
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Old April 1st, 2008, 08:06 PM   #15
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Great minds think alike! LOL! :)

Seriously, I just started using Cineform a few weeks ago and love it, but I was getting by with exactly the same workflow using HuffYUV files. Now my projects move MUCH faster because the Cineform files are a LOT smaller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ravens View Post
Cineform is the ONLY codec I use consistently, because it works consistently in Studio RGB. It's very predictable and accurate. While CFHD works in YUV color space, its I/O is studio RGB. Canopus HQ is an equally dependable and color accurate intermediate.
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