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What Happens in Vegas...
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 10:32 PM   #1
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Viva la vegas

Frankly, i've just about had it with people putting down Vegas and telling me that its not really a professional NLE. We all know it has functions that outshines even most other NLEs. Still, i don't seem to have an answer to when they ask me to name at least one tv show or feature or even documentary that was wholly made on Vegas. Can anyone help me with that? Does anyone know of any well-known project that was edited on Vegas?
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Old October 24th, 2008, 08:03 AM   #2
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Les Stroud uses Vegas for Suvivorman, as detailed in the recent Studio Monthly mag article.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 08:46 AM   #3
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Just curious....why does it matter if Vegas is well know or not??? You know it :)
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Old October 24th, 2008, 11:44 AM   #4
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I have come to accept that it is the way it is. Vegas is NOT used for too many large projects, say compared to Avid or even FCP. Hollywood feature films are not, for the most part even done on FCP, but on Avid, we all know that.

People will always, unless something drastically changes, look at you funny when you say Vegas.

Fortunately, my customers NEVER ask me what I edit with. They look at my work and usually decide based on that. That is good enough for me.

Actually, it is probably best to not argue about how "great" Vegas is with people who are unfamiliar. I think it just turns them off and is a waste of time. After all, they already think we're nuts.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 01:11 PM   #5
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James, yes you're right, it doesn't really matter if other people don't know Vegas. The only problem arises when people working on FCP and Avid ask you what you work on, and you proudly say Sony Vegas and they look at you funny and act as if they've never really heard of it! Then they ask what outboard hardware I use with it and obviously I say none, just the graphics card I have on my system.

I'm not a stubborn user of only Vegas, I have Premiere Pro and FCP added to my skill set and I think that puts me at an even better advantage to say that Vegas rocks in some areas and perhaps not so much on others, but where it does shine it truly blows away the competition.

Jeff, I something think that we should let our clients know that their projects have been edited on Vegas. I know a guy who always mentioned the NLE system when making out invoices, he thought it looked sufficiently high-tech :) Perhaps us Vegas users should do the same and see what happens :)
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Old October 24th, 2008, 03:32 PM   #6
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No, I personally don't care to the point that it matters in that way BUT I am curious as to other HIGHT PROFILE people or organizations that would choose to use Vegas, I just think its neat, and honestly glad to be apart of the "radical" editors out their.

Bill would love it if you could link directly to that article in SD. I know Les recently did a Keynote speech but that is the extent of what I knew.




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Old October 24th, 2008, 09:49 PM   #7
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Jeff,

I get the print version, but here is a link to the website you will have to sign up for a free subscription in order to view inside the mag.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 12:13 AM   #8
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Ali, I hear what you are saying, but I don't understand how it benefits my customers for them to know what NLE I use. They don't care. I produced a wedding video for a groom who is a producer for ESPN, and even he didn't ask. All he wanted was a killer video.

I have heard it said that in storytelling or filmmaking that if something in your story doesn't serve to move the plot along or is unnecessary and just clutters up the storyline, that it should be left out. I view the issue of the NLE I choose to be unrelated to the customer experience. For example while I know that Snap-On tools are excellent, I don't care that the handyman I hire uses them. If he chooses to use Craftsmen tools from Sears, that's fine. The quality of his work it all that matters to me.

My favorite local videographer uses Premier Pro, and produces absolutely stunning wedding videos. My second favorite is a friend who uses Avid. Everyone else uses FCP. None of them advertise it.

On the other hand, the large local studios often tout that they use Avid and/or FCP, etc, but they are dealing with customers that know the relevance and often prefer it.

Truth be told, the only reason I haven't jumped ship to FCP is because I can't afford it. It just isn't cost effective for me to pay double for a Mac, spend triple on FCP pro with all of the goodies. If I was flush with cash, I would've likely gone FCP a year ago.

I am extremely grateful for Vegas. I was able to jump right into editing and get fairly creative with it quicly, and it has served me very well. Dollar for dollar, it is, IMO the best value out there. And it is so deep, I doubt I'll ever learn how to fully utilize it. I've never even learned how to use Vegas compositing.

The bottom line for me is I'm not proud to be a Vegas user, but I feel very lucky to be one.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 01:20 PM   #9
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I think it's an interesting discussion. I work in Italy and I need to justify why I'm using Vegas to edit videos. Many people are convinced that FC or Avid can give you a better video...
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Old October 26th, 2008, 01:28 PM   #10
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I don't know if you can "justify it", Marcello. FCP and Avid are the big boys in the market place, they are what the majority of larger studios and media houses use.

When I encounter this discussion in public with someone, I always acknowledge how great FCP and Avid are, but that for MY purposes Vegas is perfect and that I prefer it. We usually both agree that the main thing is the talent of the editor, and then the discussion turns to something else more interesting. As long as we fight, argue, etc., with those that don't know what Vegas is, the more "fringe" we appear, and the more we isolate ourselves.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 01:50 PM   #11
 
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When someone talks about NLE "A" giving a better or worse image stream than NLE "B", I have to say it is more brand loyalty than reality. The reasons FCP and Avid are popular is because of the marketing, customer support, and other features the smaller guys don't offer. Avid, for example, is one of the few NLE's that has a true digital to film workflow. Very few NLE's these days, can pull that off. I think stability is another issue that is worth considering. Having come from Vegas, I will say that I left, in part, because it's not very stable. All the NLE's use the same codecs. Quicktime is quicktime whether it's a MAC or a PC. The REAL issues lie within the codecs, not the NLE's.

Avid is a special case. Avid was invented for the first film to digital cutting tool. The marketplace is indifferent to a product that doesn't perform. Avid fell behind in their complacency. But the fact remains, there probably isn't a film transfer and post house in the USA that doesn't have Avid. That's pretty important when you're transferring back and forth from a film capture.

I've edited on Macs and PC's. Beleive me, the types of problems you run into in any job are a little different, but, fundamentally issues come up. How well can the OS and NLE adapt? That's another good question. For my money FCP takes years to respond to new formats and codecs. Apple Quicktime still has problems with H.264. But, the PC is no different. So, go for what you like, 'cuz, that's the best answer anyway.

An NLE is just a tool, like a hammer. If you prefer Craftsman over S&K, don't think I've ever heard a carpenter argue the merits of his Rigid. What does it matter, anyway, they all drive the nail. As long as the hammer hammers, I'm happy.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 01:53 PM   #12
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I've done TV commericals a TV show that actually ran and many many corporate jobs not to mention hundreds of weddings on Vegas and no one including TV people have ever questioned it. I never defend it's use but very matter of factly tell people (if they ask) "I edit on Sony Vegas. "Some say (with a superior tone in their voice) "I use FCP or Avid or whatever" and all I say is "that's great, I'm sure it works almost as well as Vegas" with a smile on my face and then either change the subject or walk away.

It ain't the gear,it's the person using it!

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Old October 26th, 2008, 02:43 PM   #13
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As with most everything today, everyone is more preoccupied with brands than talent. Would you choose a brain surgeon based on what brand of scalpel they use?
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Old October 26th, 2008, 04:23 PM   #14
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Just to throw my experiences in the ring, I do occasionally come across clients who have a passing knowledge and believe that FCP/Avid will produce better videos! I tell them that I don't mess around with fun products like that, and that I use a professional edit suite designed and built by Sony.

Like Don says, it ain't the gear . . .
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Old October 26th, 2008, 10:49 PM   #15
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Analogies

Guys, really interesting discussion going on here. I'm sure the client won't care what scalpel a surgeon uses or what brand hammer a carpenter uses as long as he gets the job done. But when the carpenter or surgeon is between other carpenters and surgeons i'm sure they compare the tools of their trade, if not to show off then to suggest new and better tools. Its not only brand name here that matters, its also how well the tools function. I'm sure none of us use our particular brand of NLE because we're sympathetic to its maker. I don't have a soft spot for Sony, or Apple; they're just corporations who're out to make a buck for themselves. I am, however, concerned about how well the tool functions. I understand the tool is only as good as its user and i won't switch tools because i can't hammer straight with it, or i can't seem to cut with it in a straight line. I'll better myself first, spending time with that tool so that i can use it to its best potential. Also, how can i know that a particular tool works for me unless i haven't tried any others? All said and done, when it comes to NLEs i can safely say that i've worked with the best of them and they all have their particular strong points, and weak ones as well. Vegas i use for some projects while for others i use premiere pro, i've even used final cut pro to edit a short film that was featured in film festivals. I've done some work on avid express, i've even done a video blog on windows movie maker! Vegas i love because of its ingenuity and ease of use, in a lot of ways it way ahead of the competition as a fully featured, self reliant, audio-visual master. Still for some work i use premiere pro just because i feel the work requires. Personally, i go by feel and try not to limit myself to a particular brand. I guess i'm lucky that way, when i open my toolbox i have a number of hammers to choose from :) what's YOUR drug of choice?
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