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Old November 7th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #1
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Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

In DVDA, I bring in progressive footage for projects, in DVD projects for Bluray projects both, but under project properties for progressive it says "no" and is greyed out. Is this significant? DVDA does not re-render my footage, but I'm having trouble with flickering in my latest video on both Bluray and DVDs and am trying to narrow down the causes.

While this may or may not be connected to my flickering issue in my other post, I brought this up separately because it's always bothered me anyway. I've always assumed since DVDA is not recompressing the footage that all is well. Am I right?

Edit: never mind, I see now that setting is asking whether to recompress, it does not refer to the nature of footage, unless I'm mistaken.

Edit again: I've revised and re-rendered Bluray project and now the project properties in DVDA say yes for progressive. I can't figure this out.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 06:34 AM   #2
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

DVD & Blu-ray players don't support progressive as a standard, Blu-ray does supports 24P but for us in PAL world that is pretty useless. I have to trans-code all my 25P footage to interlaced when preparing for Blu-ray or DVD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
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Old November 8th, 2011, 07:41 AM   #3
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

Bluray does support 1280x720P60.

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Old November 8th, 2011, 08:29 AM   #4
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

Yes Ron, which is why I like 720 60p. I thought Bluray also supported 1080 30p. And my DVDs are all progressive, or at least the footage I bring into them is, and DVDA does not recompress them.

Still wonder what the thing is with project properties in DVDA sometimes showing Progressive as yes and sometimes as no.

Reviewing things this morning it seems for 720 60p Bluray, it says yes, and for DVD it says no.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 10:50 AM   #5
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
Yes Ron, which is why I like 720 60p. I thought Bluray also supported 1080 30p. And my DVDs are all progressive, or at least the footage I bring into them is, and DVDA does not recompress them.

Still wonder what the thing is with project properties in DVDA sometimes showing Progressive as yes and sometimes as no.

Reviewing things this morning it seems for 720 60p Bluray, it says yes, and for DVD it says no.
Actually, no optical disc video playback format intended for playback in standalone video players natively supports 30p at any resolution. 30p must be converted to 60i (or the DVD or Blu-ray authoring software will automatically convert 30p to 60i) before such content can be played back from DVD or Blu-ray. And the "progressive" encoding scheme for standard-definition DVD is actually intended for 24p material (either native or reverse-telecined) - that scheme inserts a 3-2 pulldown flag to tell the DVD player to remove the pulldown (all video on DVD is actually interlaced on disc even if the original content were progressive). And Blu-ray does support 1080p - but only at 23.976 fps (24p). 720p is supported with a choice of only three frame rates: 24p, 50p or 60p.

No wonder why my 30p or 60i originals encoded to DVD using the progressive encoding looked choppy and blurry both at the same time: Some of the frames never got played back at all (numerous dropped frames).
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Old November 8th, 2011, 11:14 AM   #6
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

Thanks Randall, you are dead on on all points, just looked it up on Wikipedia.

What is the optimal way to deliver 720 60p footage when preparing for DVD then? I've been delivering DVDS in 29.970 progressive.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 11:44 AM   #7
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

If you still want the motion of 60p, then you want 60i (29.97 interlaced).

DVD absolutely supports progressive material, but only at certain frame rates. 60p would not be one.

In any case, there's no particular setting which makes a DVD progressive -- it's by file. You can have progressive and interlaced material on the same DVD. Most movie DVDs with BTS footage do.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 11:52 AM   #8
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

So David you're saying I would want to interlace 60p for DVD? That would be an improvement over 29.97 progressive?
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Old November 8th, 2011, 11:53 AM   #9
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
What is the optimal way to deliver 720 60p footage when preparing for DVD then? I've been delivering DVDS in 29.970 progressive.
You will lose resolution just downconverting 720p to 480p or 480i anyway. If it is for SD DVD, the best format for 720/60p sources would be to simply encode to 480/29.970 (or 59.940) interlaced. Encoding to 29.970p would not only drop half the frames to begin with, but the DVD progressive encoding would also cause the DVD player to drop additional frames (or fields) and blend the wrong pairs of fields together, giving that video a look that's reminiscent of very-low-quality VHS. That's because the DVD player will see your "progressive" encodes as only 23.976p, not 29.970p.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 12:04 PM   #10
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

Randall, my DVDs look darned good as they are. If they are being misread, then they are still coming out pretty good. I will use Vegas to interlace the DVD files and see what happens on this current project, which should be ready in a few days.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 12:11 PM   #11
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
Randall, my DVDs look darned good as they are. If they are being misread, then they are still coming out pretty good. I will use Vegas to interlace the DVD files and see what happens on this current project, which should be ready in a few days.
By the way, Jeff, which DVD authoring software are you using? I'm asking this because many of them actually interlace all incoming 20.970p video automatically without even notifying you of it.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 12:21 PM   #12
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

I'm using DVDA, and it is not recompressing the video I bring into it. I hit "Burn DVD" and it prepares the menus quickly and starts burning within a minute or two.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 12:26 PM   #13
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

Also 24P on Bluray can only really be played back over HDMI to a TV that has a refresh rate a multiple of 24 and is recognized by the player to be able to display 24P native . Some plasma TV's and some 120hz , 240hz LCD's. Otherwise it has pulldpwn cadence inserted for 60i playback displayed as 60P of course on all NTSC flat panel TV's. How this conversion is done from 60i to 60 for display depends on the quality of the display and player. Since NTSC SD DVD is interlaced at 60i the best source is either 60i or 60P. 30P has only half the temporal motion of 60i or 60P so may judder on playback depending on player and display.

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Old November 8th, 2011, 12:37 PM   #14
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

So, to be clear, I should want to use Vegas to interlace my beautiful 60p footage for DVD when rendering mpeg 2?

This is sad news about 24p and Bluray, or rather the fact that most TVs interlace it. I just became convinced to start shooting in 24p, and now I think I am better of shooting 60i, as I have been doing for the last month.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 12:46 PM   #15
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Re: Progressive greyed out in DVDA properties, says "NO"

Its the only way SD DVD's work-interlaced. Starting with 60P would give the encoder more information so that is good. I am not a fan of 24P or even 30P for that matter preferring the smooth motion of 60i or 60P. Vegas downconvert and encode is not the best. I normally edit video in Edius which is much better but still not as good as TMPGenc for long programs.

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