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Old November 17th, 2011, 04:12 PM   #16
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Re: Removing Moire before render?

btw, one more thing. I can pretty much duplicate what I think I see in your locomotive, by NOT using the "Match Media Settings" wizard. i.e. my Project Setting were 720x480 NTSC Widescreen and my source footage was 1080 60i.

...Jerry
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Old November 17th, 2011, 07:08 PM   #17
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Re: Removing Moire before render?

Vegas is crazy in my estimation, when you go from HDV to SD 720 by 480.

I discovered quite by accident that when I rendered an HDV project to Mainconcept MP4 HD 1280 x 720, in 30p, and then render that file to Standard SD DVD, I get a much nicer finished product, and eliminate those issues. Don't ask me why, but you might give it a try.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 06:07 AM   #18
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Re: Removing Moire before render?

Okay, I did a test - starting with a 1920x1080 60i clip shot with my Canon HG21.

First case: I resized & deinterlaced the clip in HandBrake. Then returned the resized clip to Vegas and re-interlaced to 720x480 60i.

Second case: I resized & deinterlaced the 1080i clip completely in Vegas, making sure the project properties matched the source footage, Video Rendering Quality = Best, and Deinterlace method = Interpolate.

Results of the test are here: CompareHBvsVegas.zip (I would have loved to upload to Vimeo & embed, but it is important that the test be viewed as interlaced video). The "CompareHBvsVegas.mpg" is the comparison video. "BackDeck.mts" is the original footage.

My conclusions:
1) Both methods to a fairly good job of resizing the 1080i source to 720x480 Widescreen with a minimum, if any, artifacts.
2) The HandBrake method displays a minor, but noticable stutter in motion (watch the fence posts).

Is the stutter significant? No, but why go thru the extra steps of HandBrake renders when there actually appears to be a degradation in quality (albeit minor)?

As will all this stuff, YMMV,
...Jerry

btw, For resizing & deinterlacing interlaced footage to progressive for web delivery, I'm a huge proponent of HandBrake.

btw2: The 60i->30p->60i problem can be solved while retaining the improved yadif deinterlacing & Lanczos resizing, by using VirtualDub.

Last edited by Jerry Amende; November 18th, 2011 at 05:15 PM. Reason: Added btw2
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Old November 18th, 2011, 11:30 AM   #19
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Re: Removing Moire before render?

Lots of good information/tips being shared here. I don't know what I'd do without a site like this.

Thanks guys!
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Old November 18th, 2011, 03:56 PM   #20
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Re: Removing Moire before render?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Amende View Post
Okay, I did a test - starting with a 1920x1080 60i clip shot with my Canon HG21.

First case: I resized & deinterlaced the clip in HandBrake. Then returned the resized clip to Vegas and re-interlaced to 720x480 60i.

Second case: I resized & deinterlaced the 1080i clip completely in Vegas, making sure the project properties matched the source footage, Video Rendering Quality = Best, and Deinterlace method = Interpolate.

Results of the test are here: CompareHBvsVegas.zip (I would have loved to upload to Vimeo & embed, but it is important that the test be viewed as interlaced video).

My conclusions:
1) Both methods to a fairly good job of resizing the 1080i source to 720x480 Widescreen with a minimum, if any, artifacts.
2) The HandBrake method displays a minor, but noticable stutter in motion (watch the fence posts).

Is the stutter significant? No, but why go thru the extra steps of HandBrake renders when there actually appears to be a degradation in quality (albeit minor)?

As will all this stuff, YMMV,
...Jerry

btw, For resizing & deinterlacing interlaced footage to progressive for web delivery, I'm a huge proponent of HandBrake.

btw2: The 60i->30p->60i problem can be solved while retaining the improved yadif deinterlacing & Lanczos resizing, by using VirtualDub.
I check your results. I'd be curious to compare it to my method. Wouldn't want to put link your original file for that, or do it the way I proposed ?
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Old November 18th, 2011, 04:58 PM   #21
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Re: Removing Moire before render?

@Chris Barcellos: Okay, if you re-download CompareHBvsVegas.zip, I've included the original "BackDeck.mts" in the zip file. Pls note the audio says, "this is PF60". That's an obvious error as my camera will not shoot in PF60, I should have said "this is 60i". You can use MediaInfo to confirm this.

Good Luck with your testing!
...Jerry
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Old November 18th, 2011, 07:27 PM   #22
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Re: Removing Moire before render?

The strobing on the fence posts with Handbrake is temporal motion from 59.94 going to 29.97 when 2 fields are combined into 1 frame, so I agree it's not the best solution. VirtualDub has a yadif solution by converting 60i to 60p, and lanczos resizing to 720x480 but it's limited in the input formats it accepts. Using Vegas to interpolate fields is far less preferable than than advanced deinterlacing because it loses half the vertical resolution. On the other hand, DVD video itself is a throwback and people demanding it likely have lower expectations of quality.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #23
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Re: Removing Moire before render?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Amende View Post
@Chris Barcellos: Okay, if you re-download CompareHBvsVegas.zip, I've included the original "BackDeck.mts" in the zip file. Pls note the audio says, "this is PF60". That's an obvious error as my camera will not shoot in PF60, I should have said "this is 60i". You can use MediaInfo to confirm this.

Good Luck with your testing!
...Jerry
Thanks Jerry.


Heres how mine turned out... original--> mainconcept 1280 x 720 Mpg4 29.97p ---> mainconcept DVDArchitect WideScreen
Attached Files
File Type: mpg DVDArchitectfinalrender.mpg (3.96 MB, 115 views)
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Old November 19th, 2011, 03:20 AM   #24
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Re: Removing Moire before render?

Hi

Definitely a setting issue on Vegas. I took the original clip as is, made sure the settings were correct, rendered from Vegas to DVD Architect Widescreen settings and upped the quality settings as per my previous post and the output was free from any interlacing artefacts. There was some stepping on the horizontals which is to be expected, however a horizontal 0.001 Gaussian Blur removed most of this issue and cleaned things up.

Regards

Phil
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