Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Windows / PC Post Production Solutions > What Happens in Vegas...

What Happens in Vegas...
...stays in Vegas! This PC-based editing app is a safe bet with these tips.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 3rd, 2018, 09:12 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Oceanside Ca
Posts: 120
Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

Hi folks. I am struggling with settings to get high quality renderings I can post for YouTube. If you can screen shot settings it would be great! I am using Vegas Pro 14.

I posted a video on YouTube below. You can see the video quality is pretty bad. I also need to get those black bars off the bottom and top. I suspect I got a basic setting wrong :(


This video was quickly put together to test my rendering settings as well as my ability to import video files from my Canon M50 4k 30 fps, 1080p 60 fps that are mp4, my first generation Canon 7D mov video files, and my DJI phantom 4 pro 120fps 1080p mp4 files. Soon I will be adding Sony A6000 4k and 120fps clips, those will be shot in the water with a water housing.

Anyways, lots of footage on the way. I just got to work out video editing stuff like posting higher quality video resolution on YouTube, thanks in advance!
Jeff Wisener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2018, 11:18 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Riga, Latvija, EU
Posts: 284
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

I use appropriate XAVC-S format.
Juris Lielpeteris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2018, 03:11 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Navajo County, Arizona
Posts: 76
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

Hi Jeff,

The best quality I can get from that Youtube sample you posted is 480p SD!

I would suggest you take screenshots of your 'Project' settings, and render 'Template' custom settings. This will help us help you with a recommendation. Also, are you uploading directly to Youtube from within Vegas, as in using the feature 'Share Online'?

Apparently the rendered file you have is 1080-30p, that looks a whole lot better on your monitor viewer, than when you play it back through Youtube.....correct?
__________________
Best Regards.....George
George Dean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2018, 05:54 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sutton, Australia
Posts: 347
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

You have little control over what YouTube does with your videos. In Vegas 14, render as Mainconcept AVC/AAC, Internet HD 1080p, which is close to but a bit better than YouTube recommended settings, upload from your YouTube account.
Rainer Listing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2018, 06:58 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,302
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Dean View Post
...The best quality I can get from that Youtube sample you posted is 480p SD!...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This. What's up on Youtube is standard definition 480p. YT pulls out all it can from uploaded material - in this case SD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer Listing View Post
...In Vegas 14, render as Mainconcept AVC/AAC, Internet HD 1080p...
Mainconcept AVC/AAC is a high-quality encoder, if you give it enough bitrate. Given that you're shooting moving water, which is about as bitrate-hungry content as you can get, you'll want a fairly high setting of perhaps 12Mbps for 1080p material. Are you currently editing at 1080?

When you upload 4k you need more bitrate!

Here is Youtube's support on bitrate. For moving water, go to the high end of the settings!

Those are some of the sweetest most tubular tubes I've seen in a while! Be sure to post back when you have a new version up!
Attached Thumbnails
Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube-yt-encoding-recc.jpg  
__________________
30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.
Seth Bloombaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2018, 05:59 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sutton, Australia
Posts: 347
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

Seth, Mainconcept AVC/AAC, Internet HD 1080p is a Vegas render preset. 12Mbps is it's default average.
Rainer Listing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2018, 10:44 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,302
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

Thanks Rainer - that presetís about perfect.

Sad to say, though I was a Vegas power-user from pre-video v1 on, Iíve not kept up with post-Sony versions of Vegas. Work made me switch! But Mainconcept is really a pretty good encoder, and at 12Mbps plus should be great for water. Which that content deserves...
__________________
30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.
Seth Bloombaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2018, 10:44 AM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Oceanside Ca
Posts: 120
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

OK, I did another rendering following some suggestions you guys offered. I also screen shot what settings I used. Please give feedback and suggestions.....and THANK YOU!

Attached Thumbnails
Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube-aaa-rendering-vegas-youtube.jpg  
Jeff Wisener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2018, 02:10 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Navajo County, Arizona
Posts: 76
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

Hi Jeff,

This second sample I'm sure you agree looks much better than your first. The drone footage looks the best. I wonder about the footage you took from what ever camera you are using at sea level from a housing. It just doen't snap, looks rather low quality.

For your render settings I would uncheck both 'Allow source to adjust frame size' and 'Allow source to adjust frame rate'. Make sure in the 'Project' tab of your render template you have selected 'Best' in 'Video rendering quality:'

You may also want to try upping the 'Maximum' and 'Average' bps from 24,000,000/12,000,000 to 50,000,000/25,000,000. Youtube processes all videos uploaded and almost always there will be to some degree a loss of quality. Some say start with a higher bite rate, so when Youtube downgrade processes it the video will be left with more bit rate, than if you started at a normal bit rate. Others, say increasing the bit rate will not do any good and is just a waste of bandwidth. I've never spent anytime to determine who is correct in this debate.

Can you post a screenshot of your 'Project' settings. Also, a screenshot of your source media specs within this last project. The most informative with be from 'Mediainfo' in 'Text' mode.

Your action videos are going to look a bit better if you publish in 60p rather than 30p. If I were doing this project I would eliminate any footage shot in 30p, and only use 1080-60p for the normal speed scenes and 1080-120/240p for slow motion scenes. You could also use ProDAD ReSpeedr of Twixter for the slow motion scenes.

Another consideration if you are going to stay with version 14 and want to keep upload files a reasonable size is to frame-serve out of Vegas to Handbrake which will provide a better quality render than MainConcept and a smaller file size. If you are interested in frame-serving I can provide a link to a good 'How-To' tutorial.
__________________
Best Regards.....George
George Dean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2018, 02:53 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,302
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

Big improvement! IIRC you have a new 4k camera coming, seems like you'll put it to good use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Dean View Post
For your render settings I would uncheck both 'Allow source to adjust frame size' and 'Allow source to adjust frame rate'. Make sure in the 'Project' tab of your render template you have selected 'Best' in 'Video rendering quality:'
Solid recommendation! These changes will control some variables produced by different footage and project settings. And the "Best" setting is really a requirement when you're dealing with footage of mixed pixel dimensions, or, rendering to a size other than your footage's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Dean View Post
You may also want to try upping the 'Maximum' and 'Average' bps from 24,000,000/12,000,000 to 50,000,000/25,000,000. Youtube processes all videos uploaded and almost always there will be to some degree a loss of quality. Some say...
A bit more targeted would be to check the "2 pass encoding" checkbox. This will give the encoder a look at the content before the final encode, enabling the dedication of bitrate to the content that needs it most. I believe this recc is more of a "best practices say more bitrate is always better" approach. It's not wrong, but, it comes at a cost (bigger files, slower uploads, vimeo limitations)... which may be worth it if it solves a problem. I'm not sure that it does, here.

My understanding is that you have a mix of HD and 4k footage in the project - more bitrate isn't going to make the HD look any better, I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Dean View Post
Another consideration if you are going to stay with version 14 and want to keep upload files a reasonable size is to frame-serve out of Vegas to Handbrake which will provide a better quality render than MainConcept and a smaller file size. If you are interested in frame-serving I can provide a link to a good 'How-To' tutorial.
Worth considering, I'd suggest this as a last step, after you've worked all the others. You'll run into file size challenges when you upload longer clips, and Handbrake can help. Frame-serving is the fastest way to the smallest, highest quality file.
__________________
30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.
Seth Bloombaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2018, 02:12 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 981
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

Just my two cents. Personally I always render out high quality masters in codecs such as XAVC-I or ProRes as they can be re-purposed into any shape and size for whatever delivery medium is requested.

For most delivery requirements Handbrake has everything from Gmail to YouTube to Vimeo presets already on board. All the presets can be varied if required and stored for later recall. I find Vegas, Premiere, Edius and Adobe Encoder all fall short on MP4 encodes with their stock proprietary H.264 codecs. It's pretty well known that the Open Source x264 library in Handbrake or Vidcoder delivers consistently better results bit rate for bit rate. Especially when using lower bit rates the differences in quality, noise and blocking become more and more obvious with Handbrake and Vidcoder really delivering the goods.

I had one project of thirty 60 min to 120 min videos that had to go up on the web for medical training sessions. The client required 720 x 404 at 25fps at the smallest practical bit rate. 720 x 404 was the largest size their online interactive education system could handle. In the long run after trying out numerous encoders, including the very expensive MainConcept TotalCode Studio and Telestream suites Handbrake and Vidcoder delivered better quality and usually at anywhere from 30-40% lower encoding bit rates. Ever since then I have stayed with those two encoders for web delivery. At much higher bit rates the overall differences aren't as obvious but from the point of view of blocking and noise in dark low light scenes x264 seems to win out nearly all the time.

Official HandBrake download
https://handbrake.fr/downloads.php

Official Vidcoder download
Home | VidCoder

If you want a bit more info on H.264 vs x264 have a bit of a read here:
Apple H.264 vs. x264 in ScreenFlow - Better Exports? Telestream Blog

Don't worry about the "Won't play on iPhone" comments in the posts. That's all well and truly sorted now.

For Telestream it means you have to buy the x264 library as an option and I though why? The x264 library is free with Handbrake or Vidcoder which are both free.

One word of caution. Because both Handbrake and Vidcoder make use of the AVX instruction set they will push your CPU to the max. If your CPU doesn't have sufficient cooling it can easily run into thermal and power throttling. On a well setup and cooled CPU Handbrake can deliver very good results.

For example Handbrake on a de-lidded i7 8700k overclocked to 5GHz with a Noctu D15 air cooler can render a 3.5 hour x264 MP4 in just over 35 minutes of render time and not break 65 degrees.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney
Christopher Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2018, 03:12 AM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Oceanside Ca
Posts: 120
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

George, Seth, and Chris:

See attached video specs in photos.

I shot the phantom 4 pro drone shots that came out better in the video at 1920x1080x199.88fps.

I shot all beach shots with my Canon M50 and Canon 70-200mm lens using 4K at 25fps.

Obviously the drone shots look better, especially in slow motion. I haven't shot this option yet but should; the M50 has 1920x1080 x 50fps capability.

I plan to get a Sony A6300 for water housing video shots. It has 1920x1080 x 120 fps. It sounds like I should get a lens adapter and use it as well for shooting on the beach with my 70-200mm canon lens. I could shoot it with the Sony 55-210mm lens but my bet I'd it isn't as sharp a lens.

I will try upping the bps from 12 to higher as Seth suggested on this edit and render again. I got to read up on things like handbrake, know nothing about it.

I think the lesson learn is don't shoot at 25fps for surfing. I consider this video I shot as a learning tool anyways. Also keep in mind though on second YouTube I posted that clip the 1 minute mark end the clip at the 1:50 minute mark are both shot with the M50 4k at 25fps. The point I am making is the clips like the one at the 1:50 minute mark were shot late in the afternoon, backlite vs the one at the 1 minute mark was morning sun with light hitting the surfer so time of day also affected video quality.

Ok, any feedback on the M50 I shot at 25 fps vs its ability to shoot at 50 fps and the option of shooting with a Sony A6300 at 1080 at 120 fps would be appreciated.

A side note is the reason for picking the Sony A6300 is the housing company here in Bali (Liquid Eye) builds them for the A6300 plus the camera, housing are cheap, and the size is small. Lastly, prefer not to spend more money on a camera going in the water considering possibility of water damage. If you really think there is a better, small and affordable camera for water photography I would love to hear about it. I just got to make sure that camera is affordable and I can get a good water housing for it.

Thanks for holding my hand through my learning process.
Attached Thumbnails
Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube-drone-1080p-120-fps-padang-settings.jpg   Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube-m50-padang-1080p-25-fps-specs.jpg  

Jeff Wisener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2018, 08:38 AM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Navajo County, Arizona
Posts: 76
Re: Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube

Hi Jeff,

Thank You for the detailed reply.

1st, when posting screenshots of your source media specs, it is preferred that you use the free application 'Mediainfo' (download from here: https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo ). Start the program, click on the 'View' tab, then select 'Text' mode. Click on the 'File' tab to load your source media file. The screenshot should look something like this (see below):

When and if you want to setup and use frame-serving and Handbrake, here is an excellent tutorial. Takes a bit to get setup, but well worth the effort and once setup, it is a snap to use: https://www.moviestudiozen.com/free-...o-to-handbrake

If you like that setup, then I would suggest you look at this tutorial on basic Handbrake setup, as well as, hundreds of others on the web how to get the most out of Handbrake: https://www.moviestudiozen.com/free-...xport-settings

If your final delivery is going to be Youtube, I would record in 1080-60p on the M50, then you will have 60p for your base fps, and use the 120p from your DJI and A6300 for slow motion. Those frame rates match evenly so it will provide smoother motion over all. Any 120 fps footage you get that you want to speed up to standard motion, Vegas will handle very well. ProDAD ReSpeedr application is relatively inexpensive and you may want to download their trial version to test and see how well it will provide slower motion from you 120p footage for super-slow motion.

Also, Magix has a deal now, buy Vegas Pro 15 and get Vegas Pro 16 free at the end of this month when it is released and I think they are including ProDad ReSpeedr free.

I think id you film at minimum 60p (50p) and up the bite rate on rendering, and use Handbrake for the rendering (see note 1 and 2) you should be getting better quality.

Note 1 - If you do purchase Vegas Pro 15/16 you will get included in that Magix AVC render format, which is better quality than MainConcept, and may also support your GPU which means your renders will be faster. Again, they have a trial version available if you haven't already tried it.

Note 2 - There may be some setting in your M50 that will improve the quality of the footage you shoot from the beach (although after you get the A6300 and housing you may not shoot from the beech after that). Shutter speed, ISO, etc. If you haven't explored the options, there may be something in your camera that will improve the quality of the source media from that camera. Just a thought.

Hope some of this helps.....
Attached Thumbnails
Help me with rendering settings for higher quality YouTube-mediainfo.png  
__________________
Best Regards.....George
George Dean is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Adorama
(800) 223-2500
New York, NY

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Texas Media Systems
(512) 440-1400
Austin, TX

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

VideoGuys
(800) 323-2325
Mineola, NY

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Windows / PC Post Production Solutions > What Happens in Vegas...

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:47 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2018 The Digital Video Information Network