What about this workflow for Vegas? at DVinfo.net

David Tyler · February 18th, 2006, 08:14 AM

Ok I think I have a workflow for my 2.53GHz p4 (768M ram, 200Gb free HD) in Vegas Platinum:

1) Capture HDV from camcorder
2) pull onto timeline and render to DV avi widescreen
3) edit the avi
4) render out final edited project as dv avi widescreen to make an SD DVD
5) select replace to swap avi files for original m2t on the timeline
6) render and print to tape
7) render as wmv 1080 for playback on the computer (maybe)

I have a number of questions though:

a) Does this look OK (espec for my spec computer)?

b) Is the replace function frame accurate when swapping avi for M2t on the timeline? If so how does it avoid breaking the GOP?

c) Is there any advantage to using a different capture program that will automatically create clips by scene change? In other words will the render to avi at stage 2 preserve the clips or create one big file?

Thanks in advance
David

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 18th, 2006, 11:00 AM

Your workflow seems sound to me. Computer spec doesn't matter for you at that point though.
There are several HDV capture utilities that will split the scenes

Peter Wright · February 18th, 2006, 06:45 PM

I've got better results by replacing the DV avi with the original m2t before rendering for DVD.
Gearshift from VASST does this very painlessly.

Laurence Kingston · February 18th, 2006, 08:08 PM

Without Gearshift, how are you going to do step 5?

David Tyler · February 19th, 2006, 04:51 AM

Vegas Platinum seems to have this feature on its own. Admittedly I haven't tried it but it doesn't mention the need for third party software. Is there something else I should know here?
Thanks

John Rofrano · February 19th, 2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Tyler

Vegas Platinum seems to have this feature on its own. Admittedly I haven't tried it but it doesn't mention the need for third party software. Is there something else I should know here?
Thanks

There is no “need” for 3rd party software. If you have a fast computer (i.e., P4 3.2Ghz+), you can edit the mpeg transport streams right on the timeline (there are lots of reason why you don’t want to do this but many people insist and Vegas allows it). If, however, your PC isn’t fast enough to edit HDV, then 3rd party tools like GearShift make this possible by allowing you to edit a DV proxy file and swap the HDV media back in before final render.

The original poster has a P4 2.53Ghz which is really not fast enough to edit native HDV. So he is planning to edit with DV proxies. This is what we use to do before PC’s were powerful enough to edit DV video. It’s an old strategy that continues to work great. GearShift makes it easier to do this.

~jr

David Tyler · February 19th, 2006, 11:24 AM

I am the original poster. Sorry I think I may be causing confusion. My understanding is that Gearshift doesn't work with the Vegas MS Platinum, only the full spec 6c or 6d products. Unfortunately I can't afford those right now.

What I want to know is whether the replace function in the cheaper Vegas Platinum package works well enough as a proxy function, swapping edited DV avi for the original M2T files.

Thanks

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 19th, 2006, 11:38 AM

The replace function works similarly to GearShift, except that it's manual and not automated.

David Tyler · February 20th, 2006, 12:22 PM

Thanks DSE. Do you mean by manual that I just have to select replace in the menu and navigate to the correct file? I assume it then carries out the replace throughout the project (all clips on the timeline etc)?

And does it do this with frame accuracy?

Thanks

Jon Omiatek · February 20th, 2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Rofrano

There is no “need” for 3rd party software. If you have a fast computer (i.e., P4 3.2Ghz+), you can edit the mpeg transport streams right on the timeline (there are lots of reason why you don’t want to do this but many people insist and Vegas allows it). ~jr

I have a P4 Dual Core 3.2Ghz with 4gb of ram. I do not think you can edit the m2t stream and have a good editing experience with an intermedite avi.

I bought Cineforms Connect HD and it gives a close to DV editing experience in Vegas 6D.

1) I capture via Connect HD with Scene Detection
2) I then import the avi's into Vegas
3) Edit
4) Render to whatever HD format, I usually go to WMV HD until Blueray or HD DVD comes out(on occasion on downconvert to SD DVD)

Am I missing anything or this what everyone else is doing.

Jon

Heath Vinyard · February 20th, 2006, 04:49 PM

Can anyone give a nod or frown to this workflow for 6d?

1. Record HDV with DV Rack HDV
2. Move files to editing computer
3. Move file to timeline and render as HDV 720-24p intermediate (changed to 24p myself and saved a setting for this)
4. Edit in V6d in trimmer tool, do post, make right
5. Render final in HD 720-24p MPEG-2 file

Does this work?

Thanks for the help.

Computer Specs
P4 3.0HT
2G RAM
2 SATA Drives

David Tyler · February 21st, 2006, 03:56 PM

OK. I tried an experiment to see how well the replace function works in Platinum. I pulled an avi file on the timeline and rendered it out to WMV. I then started a new project editing the WMV file. Finally I selected replace to swap the edited WMV file on the timeline for the original avi. It was instantaneous! I was amazed. I assume it may not be quite so quick with an hours worth of footage on there and replacing with HDV (m2t) files but it looks promising. The original render took a fair old time (1 hour 40mins to render a 10 min avi to wmv) so I dare say this will be the bottleneck in my workflow.

It was really easy. In fact I don't really understand how gearshift could have made it any easier or quicker?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 21st, 2006, 04:12 PM

Because GearShift can replace hundreds of scenes, hundreds of clips, whatever you might have, in one button click. Replace in the Media Pool/Project Media bin, has to be done one clip at a time.

Yi Fong Yu · February 22nd, 2006, 12:05 AM

david,

i had to meet a certain deadline a while back when i edited 1080i/24F m2t's from XL H1 and i couldn't have done it without gearshift (search me threads).

i believe gearshift is only $50 or somn. it is not expensive compared to Connect HD or other solutions. it's really a time-saver (most of vst products are ;).

re: swapping. if you're regularly edit 1 source file, then by all means swap one file. but when you work with more than 1 source file, that's where gearshift comes in handy.

how does gearshift make it easier? an example is that i had 15 .m2t files and they all had to go into the same timeline. now imagine what you're doing for 1 multiplied by 15 multiplied by the color correction ya gotta do between SD&HDV. i think it does more, but you can check the link at the bottom of DSE&john's sig.

so, YMMV. work with many HDV clips, gearshift helps you. work with 1, by all means, experiment =).

David Tyler · February 22nd, 2006, 12:33 PM

Thanks both for your replies and I now see the Gearshift advantage. I would be happy to buy it but it doesn't work with the cheaper Vegas MS Platinum software.

I don't normally have more than 3 video source files when I edit but I do normally have them broken down into smaller clips. With my workflow I assume I'll have to keep them all as single files anyway so the overhead of individual 'replaces' will be minimal. I can't see myself doing much colour correcting either so it looks like I have a workable solution.

I hope this is helpful for others too. I'm sure there must be some editors out there who have fairly basic requirements but who have bought an HDV camcorder and who now just want something that will work. With the exception of the Womble editor (which can't print to tape), I've not found another package that will work well enough on older computers. Vegas claims a 2.8GHz processor with 512Mb ram and no fancy video cards will do the job and although that's slightly above my spec, I'm hopeful of getting a good result.

I'll keep you posted.

February 18th, 2006, 08:14 AM	#1
David Tyler Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 34	What about this workflow for Vegas? Ok I think I have a workflow for my 2.53GHz p4 (768M ram, 200Gb free HD) in Vegas Platinum: 1) Capture HDV from camcorder 2) pull onto timeline and render to DV avi widescreen 3) edit the avi 4) render out final edited project as dv avi widescreen to make an SD DVD 5) select replace to swap avi files for original m2t on the timeline 6) render and print to tape 7) render as wmv 1080 for playback on the computer (maybe) I have a number of questions though: a) Does this look OK (espec for my spec computer)? b) Is the replace function frame accurate when swapping avi for M2t on the timeline? If so how does it avoid breaking the GOP? c) Is there any advantage to using a different capture program that will automatically create clips by scene change? In other words will the render to avi at stage 2 preserve the clips or create one big file? Thanks in advance David

February 18th, 2006, 11:00 AM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Your workflow seems sound to me. Computer spec doesn't matter for you at that point though. There are several HDV capture utilities that will split the scenes __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 19th, 2006, 11:38 AM	#8
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	The replace function works similarly to GearShift, except that it's manual and not automated. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 20th, 2006, 04:49 PM	#11
Heath Vinyard Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Orange County Posts: 296	Can anyone give a nod or frown to this workflow for 6d? 1. Record HDV with DV Rack HDV 2. Move files to editing computer 3. Move file to timeline and render as HDV 720-24p intermediate (changed to 24p myself and saved a setting for this) 4. Edit in V6d in trimmer tool, do post, make right 5. Render final in HD 720-24p MPEG-2 file Does this work? Thanks for the help. Computer Specs P4 3.0HT 2G RAM 2 SATA Drives __________________ Heath Vinyard www.ghostlandmedia.com

February 21st, 2006, 04:12 PM	#13
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Because GearShift can replace hundreds of scenes, hundreds of clips, whatever you might have, in one button click. Replace in the Media Pool/Project Media bin, has to be done one clip at a time. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 18th, 2006, 06:45 PM	#3
Peter Wright Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 193	I've got better results by replacing the DV avi with the original m2t before rendering for DVD. Gearshift from VASST does this very painlessly.

February 18th, 2006, 08:08 PM	#4
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	Without Gearshift, how are you going to do step 5?

February 19th, 2006, 04:51 AM	#5
David Tyler Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 34	Vegas Platinum seems to have this feature on its own. Admittedly I haven't tried it but it doesn't mention the need for third party software. Is there something else I should know here? Thanks

February 19th, 2006, 11:24 AM	#7
David Tyler Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 34	I am the original poster. Sorry I think I may be causing confusion. My understanding is that Gearshift doesn't work with the Vegas MS Platinum, only the full spec 6c or 6d products. Unfortunately I can't afford those right now. What I want to know is whether the replace function in the cheaper Vegas Platinum package works well enough as a proxy function, swapping edited DV avi for the original M2T files. Thanks

February 20th, 2006, 12:22 PM	#9
David Tyler Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 34	Thanks DSE. Do you mean by manual that I just have to select replace in the menu and navigate to the correct file? I assume it then carries out the replace throughout the project (all clips on the timeline etc)? And does it do this with frame accuracy? Thanks

February 21st, 2006, 03:56 PM	#12
David Tyler Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 34	OK. I tried an experiment to see how well the replace function works in Platinum. I pulled an avi file on the timeline and rendered it out to WMV. I then started a new project editing the WMV file. Finally I selected replace to swap the edited WMV file on the timeline for the original avi. It was instantaneous! I was amazed. I assume it may not be quite so quick with an hours worth of footage on there and replacing with HDV (m2t) files but it looks promising. The original render took a fair old time (1 hour 40mins to render a 10 min avi to wmv) so I dare say this will be the bottleneck in my workflow. It was really easy. In fact I don't really understand how gearshift could have made it any easier or quicker?

February 22nd, 2006, 12:05 AM	#14
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	david, i had to meet a certain deadline a while back when i edited 1080i/24F m2t's from XL H1 and i couldn't have done it without gearshift (search me threads). i believe gearshift is only $50 or somn. it is not expensive compared to Connect HD or other solutions. it's really a time-saver (most of vst products are ;). re: swapping. if you're regularly edit 1 source file, then by all means swap one file. but when you work with more than 1 source file, that's where gearshift comes in handy. how does gearshift make it easier? an example is that i had 15 .m2t files and they all had to go into the same timeline. now imagine what you're doing for 1 multiplied by 15 multiplied by the color correction ya gotta do between SD&HDV. i think it does more, but you can check the link at the bottom of DSE&john's sig. so, YMMV. work with many HDV clips, gearshift helps you. work with 1, by all means, experiment =). __________________ bow wow wow

February 22nd, 2006, 12:33 PM	#15
David Tyler Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 34	Thanks both for your replies and I now see the Gearshift advantage. I would be happy to buy it but it doesn't work with the cheaper Vegas MS Platinum software. I don't normally have more than 3 video source files when I edit but I do normally have them broken down into smaller clips. With my workflow I assume I'll have to keep them all as single files anyway so the overhead of individual 'replaces' will be minimal. I can't see myself doing much colour correcting either so it looks like I have a workable solution. I hope this is helpful for others too. I'm sure there must be some editors out there who have fairly basic requirements but who have bought an HDV camcorder and who now just want something that will work. With the exception of the Womble editor (which can't print to tape), I've not found another package that will work well enough on older computers. Vegas claims a 2.8GHz processor with 512Mb ram and no fancy video cards will do the job and although that's slightly above my spec, I'm hopeful of getting a good result. I'll keep you posted.