Vegas Video discussions from 2004 (Q3Q4)

Brian Mitchell Warshawsky · August 24th, 2004, 11:48 AM

This relates back to an earlier question I posted on the same topic, seeking a solution akin to Premiere's "Scenes" feature which is ideal for long-form projects such as films.

My own project (Coming Attractions Trailer almost ready for posting and comments) should wind down to almost 2 hours long, and as someone new to NLE's in general, this one feature is desperately needed.

One disadvantage to rendering a whole scene out first and then dropping within the full-lenght time line is that everytime you make a change, you have two projects to render instead of just one.

Does anyone know how we might get Sony's ear on this to suggest for an upcoming revision?

Thanks,

Brian

Edward Troxel · August 24th, 2004, 12:05 PM

Here's your best bet:

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.co...suggestion.asp

Brian Mitchell Warshawsky · August 24th, 2004, 01:21 PM

I made the suggestion, we'll have to wait and see if Sony follows through.

Brian

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 24th, 2004, 03:40 PM

Was supposed to have been out already. I don't know why it's not.
I do know that the exceptionally high number of screenshots is hard for layout people to work with. We've gone through this with 4 books now. Layout people hate high numbers of images. Takes FOREVER to get the Instant Series books out.

Milt Lee · August 24th, 2004, 10:30 PM

Just got back from Cinefest 2004 in Denver.

Saw the adobe people do their magic with after effects and was very impressed. Am I right in assuming that this is the program that can give me lots of amazing choices for CG work?

It really seemed excellent, and I think I might have to get it.

Also Doug Spotted Eagle was there and did an amazing demonstration of Vegas 5. It's definitely time to move up.

Milt Lee

Marcia Janine Galles · August 25th, 2004, 08:25 AM

Working on such a long project there are a few things I miss from the Avid/FCP world. For example, is there anything out there that will allow me to color code my bins/folders in Vegas 5 now? I know you couldn't in 4. How about printing bin/folder/clip info? I felt more "secure" with a printed record of what's on which drive in the event of (god forbid) a crash. Also, while the search function in the Media Pool is a good start, is there a way to have it bring up which exact bin/folder the desired clip is in?

I'm sure more will occur to me as I crank along...
Marcia

Allen Nash · August 25th, 2004, 09:14 AM

This is what I've been doing:
1) I record video at 24p (Advanced) in my DVX100a
2) capture to PC using Vegas 4.0, via firewire. Save clips as .avi's
3) edit video
4) render as an .avi

however, then when I burn that avi to SVCD or just view it on my computer screen, the quality is absolute crap. Completely different from the beautiful image I see right after shooting when I view my dailies from the camera to any TV set with a set of AV cables.

What am I doing wrong, or how much quality is being lost from beginning to final product (the final avi file). Is there a better format I should be using other than avi? thanks..

Edward Troxel · August 25th, 2004, 09:23 AM

The AVI file should be fine. However, an SVCD is a highly compressed MPEG file which will be much lower in quality than the AVI file.

Richard Alvarez · August 25th, 2004, 09:53 AM

Ahh, media management blues... One of the things I really really love while working in Avid on long form docs.

Allen Nash · August 25th, 2004, 10:14 AM

three questions then

1) are .avi's compressed or uncompressed. is it the best format to capture to?
2) how do they compare to .mov?
3) so if i author a DVD from the .avi, will the quality be as good as the original camera quality (ie. is the loss only coming from printing to SVCD?)

thanks again.

Edward Troxel · August 25th, 2004, 10:40 AM

When you "capture" via firewire, you are simply COPYING the data from the tape to the hard drive. There would be NO difference between MOV or AVI as they both contain the exact same data except for the "wrapper". Your DV-AVI files are compressed but the compression is done in the camera. There is NO additional compression during the capture process.

I believe you will see a MUCH higher quality on a DVD as compared to an SVCD.

Randall Campbell · August 25th, 2004, 10:55 AM

Marcia,

There is a script called Clip Logger that will allow you to output the media pool info to a delimited text file. It was originally written for importing clip log info, but I added the export function based upon a user request.

If you want to give it a try, go to the following link for more info. Clip Logger is a part of the Veggie Toolkit. If you download the toolkit, you can try it for 30 days.

http://www.peachrock.com/software/veggie-toolkit.html

If you desire any enhancements to the script, just email me at info@peachrock.com and I will see what I can do to help.

Randall

Gary Kleiner · August 25th, 2004, 02:18 PM

Vince,

You can still order Vegas Video Editing (3 hours of Vegas 4 instruction) at www.VegasTrainingAndTools.com.

Thanks,
Gary

Michael Best · August 25th, 2004, 08:26 PM

I can match up the look of the dvx100 with the XL1S in terms
of saturation, sharpness, etc. Can I really acheive the 24p
look in Vegas with the XL1S?

Glen Elliott · August 25th, 2004, 09:15 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Best : I can match up the look of the dvx100 with the XL1S in terms
of saturation,
Any NLE will give you control over saturation.

sharpness,
No. Sure there are equivalents to the unsharpen mask filter but that doesn't really "sharpen" the image. It just boosts the contrast between edges.

The XL1s naturally offers a much softer image than the DVX100. Especially in lower light. The lower the light the softer and muddier the image becomes.

Can I really acheive the 24p
look in Vegas with the XL1S?
Depends on what you define as the 24p look? You can definitly manipulate the image and framerate to mimic the DVX's look but it will be, by no means, identical.

If your really that set on the DVX's looks why not hock your XL-1s and get a DVX?

August 24th, 2004, 12:05 PM	#632
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Here's your best bet: http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.co...suggestion.asp __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

August 24th, 2004, 03:40 PM	#634
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Was supposed to have been out already. I don't know why it's not. I do know that the exceptionally high number of screenshots is hard for layout people to work with. We've gone through this with 4 books now. Layout people hate high numbers of images. Takes FOREVER to get the Instant Series books out. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

August 24th, 2004, 10:30 PM	#635
Milt Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cass Lake MN Posts: 221	Just got back from Cinefest 2004 in Denver. Saw the adobe people do their magic with after effects and was very impressed. Am I right in assuming that this is the program that can give me lots of amazing choices for CG work? It really seemed excellent, and I think I might have to get it. Also Doug Spotted Eagle was there and did an amazing demonstration of Vegas 5. It's definitely time to move up. Milt Lee __________________ Professional website - http://manykites.com Personal - http://mrdogsblog.com

August 25th, 2004, 08:25 AM	#636
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	Any plug-ins or way to... Working on such a long project there are a few things I miss from the Avid/FCP world. For example, is there anything out there that will allow me to color code my bins/folders in Vegas 5 now? I know you couldn't in 4. How about printing bin/folder/clip info? I felt more "secure" with a printed record of what's on which drive in the event of (god forbid) a crash. Also, while the search function in the Media Pool is a good start, is there a way to have it bring up which exact bin/folder the desired clip is in? I'm sure more will occur to me as I crank along... Marcia

August 25th, 2004, 09:14 AM	#637
Allen Nash Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: S.F., California Posts: 61	how much quality is lost? This is what I've been doing: 1) I record video at 24p (Advanced) in my DVX100a 2) capture to PC using Vegas 4.0, via firewire. Save clips as .avi's 3) edit video 4) render as an .avi however, then when I burn that avi to SVCD or just view it on my computer screen, the quality is absolute crap. Completely different from the beautiful image I see right after shooting when I view my dailies from the camera to any TV set with a set of AV cables. What am I doing wrong, or how much quality is being lost from beginning to final product (the final avi file). Is there a better format I should be using other than avi? thanks..

August 24th, 2004, 11:48 AM	#631
Brian Mitchell Warshawsky Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 216	This relates back to an earlier question I posted on the same topic, seeking a solution akin to Premiere's "Scenes" feature which is ideal for long-form projects such as films. My own project (Coming Attractions Trailer almost ready for posting and comments) should wind down to almost 2 hours long, and as someone new to NLE's in general, this one feature is desperately needed. One disadvantage to rendering a whole scene out first and then dropping within the full-lenght time line is that everytime you make a change, you have two projects to render instead of just one. Does anyone know how we might get Sony's ear on this to suggest for an upcoming revision? Thanks, Brian

August 24th, 2004, 01:21 PM	#633
Brian Mitchell Warshawsky Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 216	I made the suggestion, we'll have to wait and see if Sony follows through. Brian

August 25th, 2004, 09:23 AM	#638
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	The AVI file should be fine. However, an SVCD is a highly compressed MPEG file which will be much lower in quality than the AVI file. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

August 25th, 2004, 09:53 AM	#639
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Ahh, media management blues... One of the things I really really love while working in Avid on long form docs.

August 25th, 2004, 10:14 AM	#640
Allen Nash Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: S.F., California Posts: 61	three questions then 1) are .avi's compressed or uncompressed. is it the best format to capture to? 2) how do they compare to .mov? 3) so if i author a DVD from the .avi, will the quality be as good as the original camera quality (ie. is the loss only coming from printing to SVCD?) thanks again.

August 25th, 2004, 10:40 AM	#641
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	When you "capture" via firewire, you are simply COPYING the data from the tape to the hard drive. There would be NO difference between MOV or AVI as they both contain the exact same data except for the "wrapper". Your DV-AVI files are compressed but the compression is done in the camera. There is NO additional compression during the capture process. I believe you will see a MUCH higher quality on a DVD as compared to an SVCD. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

August 25th, 2004, 10:55 AM	#642
Randall Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 69	Marcia, There is a script called Clip Logger that will allow you to output the media pool info to a delimited text file. It was originally written for importing clip log info, but I added the export function based upon a user request. If you want to give it a try, go to the following link for more info. Clip Logger is a part of the Veggie Toolkit. If you download the toolkit, you can try it for 30 days. http://www.peachrock.com/software/veggie-toolkit.html If you desire any enhancements to the script, just email me at info@peachrock.com and I will see what I can do to help. Randall

August 25th, 2004, 02:18 PM	#643
Gary Kleiner Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado Posts: 166	Vince, You can still order Vegas Video Editing (3 hours of Vegas 4 instruction) at www.VegasTrainingAndTools.com. Thanks, Gary

August 25th, 2004, 08:26 PM	#644
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	Frankly... I can match up the look of the dvx100 with the XL1S in terms of saturation, sharpness, etc. Can I really acheive the 24p look in Vegas with the XL1S?

August 25th, 2004, 09:15 PM	#645
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Re: Frankly... <<<-- Originally posted by Michael Best : I can match up the look of the dvx100 with the XL1S in terms of saturation, Any NLE will give you control over saturation. sharpness, No. Sure there are equivalents to the unsharpen mask filter but that doesn't really "sharpen" the image. It just boosts the contrast between edges. The XL1s naturally offers a much softer image than the DVX100. Especially in lower light. The lower the light the softer and muddier the image becomes. Can I really acheive the 24p look in Vegas with the XL1S? Depends on what you define as the 24p look? You can definitly manipulate the image and framerate to mimic the DVX's look but it will be, by no means, identical. If your really that set on the DVX's looks why not hock your XL-1s and get a DVX?