possible to shoot in 3d? at DVinfo.net

Eric Stemen · June 15th, 2005, 10:11 PM

Anyone every done this with success?

Here's my idea
Have two camcorders and space them apart and slightly angle them toward each other. later in post sync up the two videos and layer them over top of each other but have one image slightly to the left and the other to the right. If done right and i cross my eyes kinda like in a magic eye book. I would think this would work and give the illusion of 3d. If had success with this by using my digital camera and taking a picture of a camcorder and spacing the images apart, but not over lapping the images.

Anyone have any other ideas on how to shoot in 3d that doesn't require steroscopic glasses(mainly becuase i have no idea where to start).

Bob Costa · June 15th, 2005, 10:36 PM

How could you keep frames exactly in sync? Otherwise, I would think it might just be a blurry mess. And how would you display it?

Glenn Chan · June 15th, 2005, 11:27 PM

If the cameras have genlock you should be able to keep them shooting in sync?

2- Display: There are some stereoscopic glasses for computers that are at the consumer level. But:
A- I don't know how easy it is to program/format video for it.
B- On CRTs, a 120hz refresh rate means 60hz for each eye. This can cause eye strain over prolonged periods.

You can also do the 3d with blue/red glasses.

Jack Zhang · June 15th, 2005, 11:40 PM

What about 3D HDV? Without transfering to a computer (except a Cell computer), record from the start of each tape and use a DIY split LANC cable that presses record at the same time or you can do it yourself manually. I reccomend 2 Z1s to do this feat. The only downside is that you can only watch it on a DIY Z1 3D rig with both tapes in sync. Could be the closest thing to home video reality!

Bob Costa · June 16th, 2005, 04:45 AM

I was thinking about sync at the shutter level, not at the frame level. How precise is genlock? I thought it just kept two cams within one frame of each other.

Patrick King · June 16th, 2005, 05:07 AM

Its been done: 3D DVX

Jimmy McKenzie · June 16th, 2005, 06:43 AM

Check the bottom of this page:
http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article58.htm

John C. Chu · June 16th, 2005, 07:25 AM

There is something in the stereo photography world called a "Beam Splitter". Basically it is an adapter you put in front of a camera lens.[Look at B&H Photo for the Pentax Stereo Adapter] The adapter consists of two mirrors--each seeing what the left and right eye would see.

The picture that is recorded/photographed is split down the middle. So you have a 2 vertical pictures with some black banding down the middle.

But when you put on stereo glasses---and put your nose directly in the line between the pictures...both pictures will merge into a 3d photo.

It works--but the field of view is very narrow.

I think the easier way *is* to use two cameras simultaneously to record.

The on playback---feed each individual left right LCD on those eye video glasses/goggles and voila---BRAINSTORM!

Of course--make sure to record the sound with BINAURAL microphones...

Steven White · June 16th, 2005, 07:50 AM

I think you have a beam splitter confused.

A typical beam splitter is nothing more than a partially silvered mirror. Some fraction of the light goes through, another fraction is reflected. There was an article about someone using a beam splitter to break up the incoming light and send 1/2 an image to 2 cameras, doubling the resolution of the acquired image, but this will never give 3D.

True 3D requires (at least) a stereoscopic setup... and this is really only horizontal 3D. The vertical dimension of the image will have no depth - so if you rotate your head, the illusion will fail.

-Steve

John C. Chu · June 16th, 2005, 09:51 AM

I think the terminology is probably misused--but it is what I'm repeating.

However, the Pentax stereo adapter*is* 3D. It just puts the left and right images onto one frame of film/video just like pictures from a Viewmaster--except the picture is side by side on each frame.[Parallel format]

Loreo also makes a new stereo adapter--it should work in front a video camera too[but probably a very narrow field of view.]

You can see some of the stuff here:

http://www.3dstereo.com

http://www.loreo.com/pages/products/loreo_3dcap.html

Giroud Francois · June 16th, 2005, 12:01 PM

there are tons of product (gadget?) doing this from relatively cheap to awfully expensive.
Anyway, if 3D was really something big, we would have it from a long time.
The only problem until today was really the projection step.
Since it is partially solved with new 3D lcd, you can imagine it will spread a bit better, but it still an exotic stuff.

Ken Plotin · June 16th, 2005, 10:24 PM

Eric,
Yes, it's possible to shoot very giood 3D with properly alligned (parallel) and spaced cameras (2" apart is a good starting point...the interocular distance between human eyes is generally accepted as 2 3/4" ). You dont need genlock, just sync up the 2 cameras with a clapstick or a hand clap. 30P would be ideal (DVX100a), but 60i works fine. Bring scene from both cameras into an NLE timeline. Sync them up. Pull out all the blue&green from the "left eye" camera using the color curves control in your NLE. Pull all the red from the "right eye" camera.
Superimpose them using the "screen mode" setting.
View the result with Anaglyph (red/cyan ) glasses for a 3D result in color!
These are just basic instructions...tweak the X-Y relationship between the left & right eye settings to enhance the 3D effect to taste.
Have fun!

Ken

Jason J. Gullickson · June 27th, 2005, 11:09 AM

Ken, this is exactly what I was looking for!

Does anyone here have an example of this?

Eric Stemen · June 27th, 2005, 03:43 PM

your the man ken!!! Thanks =) now i need to try it.

June 15th, 2005, 10:11 PM	#1
Eric Stemen Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 378	possible to shoot in 3d? Anyone every done this with success? Here's my idea Have two camcorders and space them apart and slightly angle them toward each other. later in post sync up the two videos and layer them over top of each other but have one image slightly to the left and the other to the right. If done right and i cross my eyes kinda like in a magic eye book. I would think this would work and give the illusion of 3d. If had success with this by using my digital camera and taking a picture of a camcorder and spacing the images apart, but not over lapping the images. Anyone have any other ideas on how to shoot in 3d that doesn't require steroscopic glasses(mainly becuase i have no idea where to start).

June 15th, 2005, 10:36 PM	#2
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	How could you keep frames exactly in sync? Otherwise, I would think it might just be a blurry mess. And how would you display it? __________________ You are either growing or dying.

June 16th, 2005, 04:45 AM	#5
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	I was thinking about sync at the shutter level, not at the frame level. How precise is genlock? I thought it just kept two cams within one frame of each other. __________________ You are either growing or dying.

June 16th, 2005, 05:07 AM	#6
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	Its been done: 3D DVX __________________ Fear No Weevil!

June 16th, 2005, 06:43 AM	#7
Jimmy McKenzie Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Waterloo Ontario Posts: 721	I'm not sure if this one ever left the drawing board... Check the bottom of this page: http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article58.htm

June 15th, 2005, 11:27 PM	#3
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	If the cameras have genlock you should be able to keep them shooting in sync? 2- Display: There are some stereoscopic glasses for computers that are at the consumer level. But: A- I don't know how easy it is to program/format video for it. B- On CRTs, a 120hz refresh rate means 60hz for each eye. This can cause eye strain over prolonged periods. You can also do the 3d with blue/red glasses.

June 15th, 2005, 11:40 PM	#4
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	What about 3D HDV? Without transfering to a computer (except a Cell computer), record from the start of each tape and use a DIY split LANC cable that presses record at the same time or you can do it yourself manually. I reccomend 2 Z1s to do this feat. The only downside is that you can only watch it on a DIY Z1 3D rig with both tapes in sync. Could be the closest thing to home video reality!

June 16th, 2005, 07:25 AM	#8
John C. Chu Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Rego Park , NYC Posts: 665	There is something in the stereo photography world called a "Beam Splitter". Basically it is an adapter you put in front of a camera lens.[Look at B&H Photo for the Pentax Stereo Adapter] The adapter consists of two mirrors--each seeing what the left and right eye would see. The picture that is recorded/photographed is split down the middle. So you have a 2 vertical pictures with some black banding down the middle. But when you put on stereo glasses---and put your nose directly in the line between the pictures...both pictures will merge into a 3d photo. It works--but the field of view is very narrow. I think the easier way is to use two cameras simultaneously to record. The on playback---feed each individual left right LCD on those eye video glasses/goggles and voila---BRAINSTORM! Of course--make sure to record the sound with BINAURAL microphones...

June 16th, 2005, 07:50 AM	#9
Steven White Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 547	I think you have a beam splitter confused. A typical beam splitter is nothing more than a partially silvered mirror. Some fraction of the light goes through, another fraction is reflected. There was an article about someone using a beam splitter to break up the incoming light and send 1/2 an image to 2 cameras, doubling the resolution of the acquired image, but this will never give 3D. True 3D requires (at least) a stereoscopic setup... and this is really only horizontal 3D. The vertical dimension of the image will have no depth - so if you rotate your head, the illusion will fail. -Steve

June 16th, 2005, 09:51 AM	#10
John C. Chu Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Rego Park , NYC Posts: 665	I think the terminology is probably misused--but it is what I'm repeating. However, the Pentax stereo adapteris 3D. It just puts the left and right images onto one frame of film/video just like pictures from a Viewmaster--except the picture is side by side on each frame.[Parallel format] Loreo also makes a new stereo adapter--it should work in front a video camera too[but probably a very narrow field of view.] You can see some of the stuff here: http://www.3dstereo.com http://www.loreo.com/pages/products/loreo_3dcap.html

June 16th, 2005, 12:01 PM	#11
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	there are tons of product (gadget?) doing this from relatively cheap to awfully expensive. Anyway, if 3D was really something big, we would have it from a long time. The only problem until today was really the projection step. Since it is partially solved with new 3D lcd, you can imagine it will spread a bit better, but it still an exotic stuff.

June 16th, 2005, 10:24 PM	#12
Ken Plotin Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 254	Eric, Yes, it's possible to shoot very giood 3D with properly alligned (parallel) and spaced cameras (2" apart is a good starting point...the interocular distance between human eyes is generally accepted as 2 3/4" ). You dont need genlock, just sync up the 2 cameras with a clapstick or a hand clap. 30P would be ideal (DVX100a), but 60i works fine. Bring scene from both cameras into an NLE timeline. Sync them up. Pull out all the blue&green from the "left eye" camera using the color curves control in your NLE. Pull all the red from the "right eye" camera. Superimpose them using the "screen mode" setting. View the result with Anaglyph (red/cyan ) glasses for a 3D result in color! These are just basic instructions...tweak the X-Y relationship between the left & right eye settings to enhance the 3D effect to taste. Have fun! Ken

June 27th, 2005, 11:09 AM	#13
Jason J. Gullickson Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 170	Ken, this is exactly what I was looking for! Does anyone here have an example of this?

June 27th, 2005, 03:43 PM	#14
Eric Stemen Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 378	your the man ken!!! Thanks =) now i need to try it.