Sony TD10 3D camera editing suggestions

[Pavel Houda]

As far as the 3dtv.at S/W goes, people definitely split files with it from that camera. Perhaps email Peter Wimmer. He has been on this forum several times, but he is mostly on the yahoo group: 3dtv : 3d stereoscopic amateur videos. You can ask there. There were some updates lately.

Someone posted a procedure for the file splitting for the Vegas 10.0d:

Sony HDR-TD10E
3D STEREOSCOPIC VIDEO SPLIT LEFT-RIGHT MVC FILES
1 - In Vegas 10.0d, configure the project as "LEFT ONLY" (in 3D mode)
2 - Take a file imported from the TD10E with Sony PMB
3 - Render .....
4 - Reconfigure the project as "RIGHT ONLY"
5 - Take the same file and replace it in its track
6 - Render as step 3 and save it also in the desired folder, renamed-R

I went from Vegas into Final Cut and Tim's filter many times. I normally render into ffdshow MJpeg at the desired quality, and move it into my Mac. It usually imports into Final Cut (AIC) quite easily, even though it is time consuming.

This is a hot topic on many forums. Unfortunately Apple is not very interested in BluRay or in 3D, and the people supporting these media and formats don't port their S/W onto Mac.

[Bruce Schultz]

Thanks for all that info Pavel. I'll give your suggestions a try even though I'm not that familiar with the Vegas program.

[Giroud Francois]

i own a TD10E and found the camera to work very well.
The only problem is the way you work and what you want to get.
If you are looking for professional output, there is no solution for instance out of creating 3D MVC blu-ray.
Unfortunately the sony is 50/60i and this is a pain since 3D MVC Blu-ray is 24p only.
If you are an happy owner of a TD10E, you can shoot 50i, deinterlance to 25p and just use it as 24p.
for 60i, there is no solution yet since converting 60i to 24p will create lot of problem that could be irrelevant in 2D but that are really bad in 3D.
If you are just shooting for internal/personal stuff and accept to use some proprietary solution, then there is no problem.For example, you can split the MVC to left/right files, edit with your favorite application, then reassemble the left/right to side by side and burn it to a blu-ray or a usb key.

[Bruce Schultz]

My TD10 has three options for frame rate; 24P, 60P and 60i at 1080x1920. I have only shot in the 24P mode but have not as yet gotten into a program that will tell me whether it is native 24P (23.98) like Quicktime Inspector. I figure it's 23.98 embedded in a 60i stream - AKA Sony PSF.

I have some files on a timeline in Vegas 10D, but don't know the program well enough yet to determine the frame rate from that program - but I'm working on it.

[Pavel Houda]

Bruce, you don't have to know and use much of the Vegas S/W. I know how to use it about intermediately. I thought it would be useful for it's auto-alignment feature, but that isn't perfect, and Vegas kept crashing on me, wasting lot of time and nerves, so I wouldn't recommend it over FC and Stereo3D Toolbox anyway. I would just bring the files in, place them on the timeline one-by-one, output L and R in Mjpeg format, transfer that output onto Mac (unless you are running the Vegas on Mac already), and finish the post with Tim's S/W and FC. You don't have to learn much of Vegas for that. I just don't like it for real editing that much. Sony should stick to H/W. Vegas is in beta stage of development in comparison to Final Cut. Just MHO.

[Bruce Schultz]

Originally Posted by Pavel Houda

Someone posted a procedure for the file splitting for the Vegas 10.0d:

Sony HDR-TD10E
3D STEREOSCOPIC VIDEO SPLIT LEFT-RIGHT MVC FILES
1 - In Vegas 10.0d, configure the project as "LEFT ONLY" (in 3D mode)
2 - Take a file imported from the TD10E with Sony PMB
3 - Render .....
4 - Reconfigure the project as "RIGHT ONLY"
5 - Take the same file and replace it in its track
6 - Render as step 3 and save it also in the desired folder, renamed-R.

A little extra help here if you don't mind;

1. Step by step on how to configure project as LEFT ONLY (in 3D mode)
2. Why imported from Sony PMB and not directly from AVCHD/STREAM/*.MTS?
3. What are the proper Export settings? I can only see Export to Tape, DV, or PSP ?

Thanks for chiming in.

[Pavel Houda]

Sorry Bruce, I don't have Vegas 10d any more. I let the demo version expire, because it was way too unstable. Maybe someone else,or on the Vegas forum can help with step-by-step.

[Bruce Schultz]

I've successfully extracted a full frame L & R clip from Sony TD10 footage.

I used Sony Vegas 10D version NLE to extract the full resolution clips, and then exported to AVI, MXF, MOV, and MP4

1 - 13 second clip (X2 L+R) =
MP4 - 40MB (x2)
MXF - 87MB (x2)
AVI - 1.35GB (x2)
MOV- 2.70GB (x2)

The MXF which is Sony XDCAM @ 50MBs turned out to be the most efficient and data compact without any resolution sacrifice. AVI and MOV were uncompressed but obscenely large for that short of a clip. MP4 was a Sony XDCAM @ 35MBs which most closely replicated the original AVCHD data rate.

I used Final Cut Pro XDCAM Transfer software (Mac) from Sony to re-wrap the MXF file to MOV and placed both clips in the FCP bin. Dashwood plug in was applied to adjust convergence, and I watched the full screen composite on a Samsung 42" 3D HDTV.

Mission accomplished, TD10 footage can now fit into either an Avid or FCP workflow with this process, although it does span two different OS which makes it kind of kludgy. Hopefully a more direct method will arise soon to avoid this log jam of NLE's.

Now I'm trying to determine if there is a way to batch process in Vegas, but I'm suspecting that there isn't for this type of activity.

[Prech Marton]

Anyone who have a TD10, can upload a very short native MVC file?
I work with Vegas for many years, and with 2 cameras sidebyside,
but i like to upgrade to TD10 or the new HXR-NX3D1.
I like to see the quality of the footage, the wide angle, barrel distorsion,
chromatic aberration, low light sensitivity, etc. before buying.
The 3cm interaxial is not too small? I hope it will be ok also for very near subjects,
because now i have 7cm minimum with my cams, and often this is just
too much for close subjects. And it is true that you can set the parallax
with a knob, but not with toe in the lens, instead the sensors are wider than
fullhd, so i can play with the extra pixels on the sides? That's what i have read.

Can somebody help me? Then i can help in using of Vegas.
regards

[David M. Cole]

Here's a little clip from a recent U/W shoot. Sorry it's not much - actually the only small clip I have and it's a result of an accidental start and stop of the Record function. Hopefully it will help.

I'll try to shoot some better short clips soon.

http://beampath3d.com/pub/Bimini_25_MVC.zip

[Prech Marton]

Thanks, even Vegas Moviestudio can read this file, and use as stereo3D source,
output to MVC, etc..
I only have to set the "'pair with next stream" option in the clip properties dialog.

[David M. Cole]

Here are a few more short clips. At least these have some color range and some motion.


http://beampath3d.com/pub/Paramotor_16_MVC.zip
http://beampath3d.com/pub/Paramotor_17_MVC.zip
http://beampath3d.com/pub/Golf_MVC.zip

[Prech Marton]

Thanks, looks very good to me!
Can this cam shoot real 24p, or just 50/60i?
Stereoscopic player cannot deinterlace the MVC file..

The 3cm base work well with close subjects!
The opposite situation: sunday i filmed an airplane in a show,
with 15cm base, but this was too small. I get little depth.
So now i have to make a 60cm rig :-)

[David M. Cole]

Unfortunately the TD10 is limited to 1080 60i in 3D. This is a MAJOR limitation. I would think it's a deal killer for all but the home movie consumer. Even then, the user will need one of the 3DTV's that support 1080 60i frame-packed mode (e.g. Panasonic or Sony).

Stereoscopic player should de-interlace the MVCs properly - it just doesn't detect the need to do so automatically. Go to "Video Properties" under the "File" menu, select the "Settings" tab and click on the "Interlaced Video" option.

The narrow I.A. is better than the alternative (too wide) that most side-by-side cameras have suffered with since the dawn of time. It will help the consumer user from ripping viewer's eyes out with excessive parallax.

[Prech Marton]

Yes, but 60i is perfect for 120Hz shutter systems.
Who wants to create 24p the european 50i version would be better,
beacuse it can be deinterlace to 25p, and slowdown to 24p.
Yes, Stereoscopic player has some deinterlace, but this simply duplicate one field,
so usless, compared to real Blend or Bob method. In the codec properties (ctrl-v)
i cannot set deinterlacing.