Two cmos camera head with GIGe for 3D at DVinfo.net

Serge Victorovich · October 6th, 2005, 05:18 AM

Hi there!
My crazy idea is connect two cmos 1280x720(1024) camera heads with GIGe interface to PC and capture to stereo-video 1280x1440(over-under) in real time, use efficient codec as Cineform Prospect HD. May be cost effective instead
one PC based on Dual Opteron 252 with Prospect HD using two PC's with free
Huffyuv codec and capture two separate 1280x720 streams? Then edit these streams and combine into 1280x1440? Best codec for acquisition and post must be 4:2:2 8/10 bit (Cineform or Huffyuv). For distribution wmv, divx or xvid?
What application on PC need to capture stream from camera head and encode
to choosed codec?
Thank you in advance for any suggestion,
Serge.

Serge Victorovich · October 10th, 2005, 06:57 AM

Nobody did answer in few days... This means i've posted really crazy idea:)
Well. Variant #2. Two genlocked camcorders Sony HDR-HC1. Cost effective,
no need pc, but drawback: highly compressed mpeg2 25Mbps only 8bit 4:2:0
interlaced. Excited news about cmos imager inside HC-1! This imager have
resolution 1920x1080 (or 1440?) and able to capture 60Fps!

"The CMOS imaging sensor has roughly 3.8 times as many pixels as the 1/6-inch design used in the firm's DCR-PC1000 SDTV camcorder released in March 2005, and pixel pitch is about 2.35£gm. The new model can shoot 1080p at 60 frames/s, converting the imagery into 1080i at 60 fields/s."
http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/neasia/001840

What i can say... This little puppy HC-1 must be hacked as DVX100(reel-stream.com)

Steve Nordhauser · October 11th, 2005, 08:00 AM

Serge,
We have experimented a bit with stereo recording with the SI-1920HD. Gigabit ethernet or a dual channel camera link adapter work out well. As you have stated, bandwidth is an issue. Our work has been mostly at 1920x1080, 12 bit 24fps but by dropping resolution you can (obviously) drop bandwidth and compression computation time.

There is a real tradeoff, especially with two channels of video between raw recording rates and the CPU overhead in real-time compression. Raw Bayer images don't compress well, especially lossless. A green screen would look like a perfect checkerboard - enough to send any compression algorithm screaming into the night. Benchmark your algortithm carefully. You must have enough buffering so that if the OS decides to wander a bit (short attention span) you won't drop frames.

Contact me at SI if you want to discuss specific products and solutions that we might have.

Wayne Morellini · October 13th, 2005, 01:04 AM

There are some cameras setup in stereo cameras already:

http://www.ptgrey.com/products/stereo.html
http://www.videredesign.com/stereo_on_a_chip.htm

I was hoping to post a thread shortly about it, because a number of people have asked about it in the past. If you do a search on the web I am sure you might find more manufacturers (rather than these firewire limited solutions). I got these off a firewire camera list.

I think writing to them and asking them if they are going to do dual link Gige or dual Firewire800, would be a good idea. At their present pricing such cameras would be good value for money, even single link would add significant frame rates.

Serge Victorovich · October 13th, 2005, 03:37 AM

Steve, i've send to you Private Message, but on my control panel have message:"Your administrator has disabled private messaging"
If possible, please explain your solution here.
Price for twin gigE cams you can send to vsv2000$mail.com
Thank you!

Wayne, i know about these SD firewire solutions, but i need HD at least 1280x720 for eye. Do you know about Elphel network camera based on embedded Linux, an open FPGA, and a free, open codec called Ogg Theora? You can read about new model-333."The camera has been successfully tested with a 1280x1024 sensor running at 30 fps (the camera can also run with a 2048x1536 sensor at 12fps, and can accommodate future sensors up to 4.5MPix)"
http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT3888835064.html
http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php/Camera_hardware

Best regards,
Serge.

Steve Nordhauser · October 13th, 2005, 07:16 AM

Serge,
You've got mail.
Steve

Wayne Morellini · October 14th, 2005, 09:45 AM

Whoops, I gave you the wrong link, there are Mpixel versions, but too slow anyway. Have you come across any others?

The software/hardware development systems are quiet interesting to read. They have compression engine, on that VGA link, so hopefully they will put out an Mpixel version with faster frame rate and link one day. So it is still worth contacting them and asking what there future expansion plans are.

> Do you know about Elphel network camera

Been in contact with Andrey before, he finally got that camera out. I'd better check pricing.

Wayne Morellini · October 14th, 2005, 10:19 AM

Just had a glance at them. If you are going to consider them, you should consider carefully. A compression ratio of under 5:1 (from estimates over 100Mb/s buss) and 4:2:0, and some of those sensors are not quiet in the same league of results you could get from Silicons system, or some of the other ones around here. But on the other hand again, if a firewire, high frame rate, Mpixel camera should become available that uses pro video industry standard video capture software, and even freeware versions, then you maybe able to save money and hassle.

Have a nice day.

Wayne.

Wayne Morellini · October 18th, 2005, 11:09 PM

OK, I just had a look at that link again, and realise I mistook the cameras codec for a Mjpeg, when it is in fact a low bit Theora codec. My apologies. This is a lot better, providing that codec doesn't do a lot of culling rather than innovative compression. You should check for that and edibility.

October 6th, 2005, 05:18 AM	#1
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Two cmos camera head with GIGe for 3D Hi there! My crazy idea is connect two cmos 1280x720(1024) camera heads with GIGe interface to PC and capture to stereo-video 1280x1440(over-under) in real time, use efficient codec as Cineform Prospect HD. May be cost effective instead one PC based on Dual Opteron 252 with Prospect HD using two PC's with free Huffyuv codec and capture two separate 1280x720 streams? Then edit these streams and combine into 1280x1440? Best codec for acquisition and post must be 4:2:2 8/10 bit (Cineform or Huffyuv). For distribution wmv, divx or xvid? What application on PC need to capture stream from camera head and encode to choosed codec? Thank you in advance for any suggestion, Serge.

October 11th, 2005, 08:00 AM	#3
Steve Nordhauser Silicon Imaging, Inc. Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troy, NY USA Posts: 325	Stereo Imaging Serge, We have experimented a bit with stereo recording with the SI-1920HD. Gigabit ethernet or a dual channel camera link adapter work out well. As you have stated, bandwidth is an issue. Our work has been mostly at 1920x1080, 12 bit 24fps but by dropping resolution you can (obviously) drop bandwidth and compression computation time. There is a real tradeoff, especially with two channels of video between raw recording rates and the CPU overhead in real-time compression. Raw Bayer images don't compress well, especially lossless. A green screen would look like a perfect checkerboard - enough to send any compression algorithm screaming into the night. Benchmark your algortithm carefully. You must have enough buffering so that if the OS decides to wander a bit (short attention span) you won't drop frames. Contact me at SI if you want to discuss specific products and solutions that we might have. __________________ Silicon Imaging, Inc. We see the Light! http://www.siliconimaging.com

October 13th, 2005, 01:04 AM	#4
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Stereo Cameras There are some cameras setup in stereo cameras already: http://www.ptgrey.com/products/stereo.html http://www.videredesign.com/stereo_on_a_chip.htm I was hoping to post a thread shortly about it, because a number of people have asked about it in the past. If you do a search on the web I am sure you might find more manufacturers (rather than these firewire limited solutions). I got these off a firewire camera list. I think writing to them and asking them if they are going to do dual link Gige or dual Firewire800, would be a good idea. At their present pricing such cameras would be good value for money, even single link would add significant frame rates.

October 13th, 2005, 07:16 AM	#6
Steve Nordhauser Silicon Imaging, Inc. Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troy, NY USA Posts: 325	Serge, You've got mail. Steve __________________ Silicon Imaging, Inc. We see the Light! http://www.siliconimaging.com

October 10th, 2005, 06:57 AM	#2
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Nobody did answer in few days... This means i've posted really crazy idea:) Well. Variant #2. Two genlocked camcorders Sony HDR-HC1. Cost effective, no need pc, but drawback: highly compressed mpeg2 25Mbps only 8bit 4:2:0 interlaced. Excited news about cmos imager inside HC-1! This imager have resolution 1920x1080 (or 1440?) and able to capture 60Fps! "The CMOS imaging sensor has roughly 3.8 times as many pixels as the 1/6-inch design used in the firm's DCR-PC1000 SDTV camcorder released in March 2005, and pixel pitch is about 2.35£gm. The new model can shoot 1080p at 60 frames/s, converting the imagery into 1080i at 60 fields/s." http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/neasia/001840 What i can say... This little puppy HC-1 must be hacked as DVX100(reel-stream.com)

October 13th, 2005, 03:37 AM	#5
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Steve, i've send to you Private Message, but on my control panel have message:"Your administrator has disabled private messaging" If possible, please explain your solution here. Price for twin gigE cams you can send to vsv2000$mail.com Thank you! Wayne, i know about these SD firewire solutions, but i need HD at least 1280x720 for eye. Do you know about Elphel network camera based on embedded Linux, an open FPGA, and a free, open codec called Ogg Theora? You can read about new model-333."The camera has been successfully tested with a 1280x1024 sensor running at 30 fps (the camera can also run with a 2048x1536 sensor at 12fps, and can accommodate future sensors up to 4.5MPix)" http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT3888835064.html http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php/Camera_hardware Best regards, Serge.

October 14th, 2005, 09:45 AM	#7
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Whoops, I gave you the wrong link, there are Mpixel versions, but too slow anyway. Have you come across any others? The software/hardware development systems are quiet interesting to read. They have compression engine, on that VGA link, so hopefully they will put out an Mpixel version with faster frame rate and link one day. So it is still worth contacting them and asking what there future expansion plans are. > Do you know about Elphel network camera Been in contact with Andrey before, he finally got that camera out. I'd better check pricing.

October 14th, 2005, 10:19 AM	#8
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Just had a glance at them. If you are going to consider them, you should consider carefully. A compression ratio of under 5:1 (from estimates over 100Mb/s buss) and 4:2:0, and some of those sensors are not quiet in the same league of results you could get from Silicons system, or some of the other ones around here. But on the other hand again, if a firewire, high frame rate, Mpixel camera should become available that uses pro video industry standard video capture software, and even freeware versions, then you maybe able to save money and hassle. Have a nice day. Wayne.

October 18th, 2005, 11:09 PM	#9
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	OK, I just had a look at that link again, and realise I mistook the cameras codec for a Mjpeg, when it is in fact a low bit Theora codec. My apologies. This is a lot better, providing that codec doesn't do a lot of culling rather than innovative compression. You should check for that and edibility.