Handholding Tips?

Rob Lohman · January 16th, 2004, 05:06 AM

I think handhold can be quite effective, especially in franatic
situations like a riot / war etc. But, most pro's seem to take
the camer "handhold" by placing it on their shoulder!
This does allow them to give it a bit more lively feel, but not
have it jump all over the place. Sometimes they also have two
handles below the camera to handle it better and also
stabalize it a bit futher. I'm gonna see if I can make something
myself for the XL1S, would be nice to have.

B&H seems to have such a thing (note: I haven't tested it, so
I don't know how well this works or doesn't!). Check it out here.

There is also a less expensive version from Varizoom here.
I imagine it will be harder to hold with only one hand(le) though.

Norm Couture · January 16th, 2004, 08:30 AM

According to most manufacturers, it seems that consumers want smaller and lighter camcorders. And that gives shaky handheld shots! A bigger and heavier one is easier to hold and operate.

After fifteen years with a low-end consumer camcorder, I ended up using the tripod ALL the time. I've come to hate my handheld shots, and the Digital Image Stabiliser doesn't help much. It's a bit better with a wide-angle adapter over the lens.

But one way to develop the right posture and move for handheld shots is to practice with... a BOWL OF HOT SOUP!
You can't shake that without getting burnt! And it demands the same kind of moves to maintain proper horizontal stability.
So the next time you go to a Chinese Buffet, go back and forth from the buffet to your table with your Won-Ton soup and try different postures!!!

Jacques Mersereau · January 16th, 2004, 09:00 AM

For handheld I use the marzpak™. Now I hang on, shoot and
have fun while the marzpak does the "work".

http://www.marztech.com

PS I am affiliated with the company ;)

Bill Pryor · January 16th, 2004, 09:44 AM

For me I can handhold a 20 pound shoulder mount camera rock solid, but I have a more difficult time with the lightweight "handycam" type cameras. Most of the above suggestions are good, especially keeping elbows in. I also take a deep breath and exhale slowly while shooting. If you have to breath in, you usually get a camera motion. Of course the number one thing is to shoot at a wide angle. The minute you zoom in, you're screwed for a solid hand held shot. Best thing to do is get some kind of shoulder mount, as Beasleigh suggested, if you need to do a lot of handheld work.

Bryan Beasleigh · January 17th, 2004, 12:50 PM

I'll second the Marzpak, it's the best money i ever spent. You actually get more for your dollar on this one. Superb workmanship and great customer service. The rig really works.

For a low cost and hands only I had mentioned the mini Rover., The mini rover is a grip that allows you to add a mic and /or a receiver as well as maintain a steady grip on the camera.

With the mini rover held to your chest, your upper arms and elbows are locked into your upperbody. The only way the camera can shake is if your whole body shakes. The camera moves in concert with your whole upper body and you can reduce even a heaving ship or bumpy jeep ride to a controlled roll.

For $450 you can have the whole enchilada, the MarzPak and the Mini Rover.

For an extra few bucks the MarPak has an add on fanny pak that will hold 8 cold ones and two king cans , one on either side.
You can strap a whole lot of gear to that puppy and carry it in comfort.

Like I said , this thread has been repeated more than a few times. Using search will open up a lot of info. It's easier to search than type in all of the same info every few weeks.

Ignacio Rodriguez · January 17th, 2004, 02:52 PM

> 6. - When In need to walk, I just walk different...
> I probably look like a dork... but it helps a lot...
> I´ts like stealth mode.. I couldn´t explain in words..
> but after a while my knees hurt.

Oh this really rings a bell with me. My knees now *always* hurt after I shoot with my PDX10, I seem to be walking in a way that put's a lot of strain on my knees and lower back. Perhaps that is subject matter for another thread but I still would like to ask... anybody here have experience dealing with the knee pain?

Don Bloom · January 17th, 2004, 03:26 PM

All the time but it has nothing to do with the way I walk holding a video camera.
If your kness hurt doing the Groucho walk loosen up a little but remember walking like that for an extended period of time is not really how our legs were made to work. Keep your shots shorter OR you might need to look into some sort of vested stabilising device.

Don

Matthew de Jongh · January 18th, 2004, 04:53 PM

i went through this a few weeks ago, i got a new camera (dvx-100a) and the shots were beautiful but shaky.

everyone told me to get a mini-rover but i resisted, i finally got one and i wouldn't give it up for anything.

there is that stupid looking thing you were on your back and the camera dangles over your head, but a steadi shot isn't worth looking that stupid :)

matthew

Bryan Beasleigh · January 19th, 2004, 12:09 AM

Mathew
The Marzpak's beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The workmanship is fantastic and the rig looks very professional, it also works a damn site better then any of those shoulder mounts. The braces with the dual arms mounted at arms length are nothing but a cool looking backbreaker.

That was the best value I've seen so far as video gear goes.

I believe it was me that turned you onto the Rover and now you tell me I look stupid. Oh well. I forgive you. (My Mum taught me how to use guilt :)))

Ken Tanaka · January 19th, 2004, 12:18 AM

FWIW, I know that Marzpak, or a similar cable suspension device, is rather popular with full-size camera operators. In their case I believe that the attraction is principally that of load redistribution.

Bryan Beasleigh · January 19th, 2004, 01:29 AM

"In their case I believe that the attraction is principally that of load redistribution."

It puts the load on your hips.

Federico Dib · January 19th, 2004, 07:57 AM

I´ll mention three reasons why I might use handheld.

1. - Sometimes I might just want to blend in with the tourists... The XM-2 VX2000 or whatever allready looks to big... Even a MiniRover will make you stand out too much. But still I want to get the best shot possible.

2. - Sometimes I might be "The Tourist".. I still want to get a great shot. And probably I won´t be packing a tripod to haul around. I´m a very light travel tourist.

3. - Handheld shots are an artistic option, the same as a travelling or a crane... When used right they can be very powerfull.. but just because it´s a handheld shot it doesn´t mean it has to be "shaky" like lot of wannabe Dogma style I´ve seen around.

Mike Rehmus · January 19th, 2004, 02:00 PM

How about a helmet cam fastened to a set of glasses?

Matthew de Jongh · January 19th, 2004, 03:57 PM

i think a helmet cam, or better yet a full size camera on a football helmet would look more stylish, would get all of those people with the marzipan thingie jealous!

matthew

Chris Hurd · May 3rd, 2006, 02:22 AM

Two and a half years old, but still an excellent thread. Stuck.

January 16th, 2004, 05:06 AM	#16
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I think handhold can be quite effective, especially in franatic situations like a riot / war etc. But, most pro's seem to take the camer "handhold" by placing it on their shoulder! This does allow them to give it a bit more lively feel, but not have it jump all over the place. Sometimes they also have two handles below the camera to handle it better and also stabalize it a bit futher. I'm gonna see if I can make something myself for the XL1S, would be nice to have. B&H seems to have such a thing (note: I haven't tested it, so I don't know how well this works or doesn't!). Check it out here. There is also a less expensive version from Varizoom here. I imagine it will be harder to hold with only one hand(le) though. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 16th, 2004, 08:30 AM	#17
Norm Couture Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Quebec, QC, Canada Posts: 123	According to most manufacturers, it seems that consumers want smaller and lighter camcorders. And that gives shaky handheld shots! A bigger and heavier one is easier to hold and operate. After fifteen years with a low-end consumer camcorder, I ended up using the tripod ALL the time. I've come to hate my handheld shots, and the Digital Image Stabiliser doesn't help much. It's a bit better with a wide-angle adapter over the lens. But one way to develop the right posture and move for handheld shots is to practice with... a BOWL OF HOT SOUP! You can't shake that without getting burnt! And it demands the same kind of moves to maintain proper horizontal stability. So the next time you go to a Chinese Buffet, go back and forth from the buffet to your table with your Won-Ton soup and try different postures!!! __________________ Norm :)

January 16th, 2004, 09:00 AM	#18
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	For handheld I use the marzpak™. Now I hang on, shoot and have fun while the marzpak does the "work". http://www.marztech.com PS I am affiliated with the company ;) __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

January 17th, 2004, 02:52 PM	#21
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	> 6. - When In need to walk, I just walk different... > I probably look like a dork... but it helps a lot... > I´ts like stealth mode.. I couldn´t explain in words.. > but after a while my knees hurt. Oh this really rings a bell with me. My knees now always hurt after I shoot with my PDX10, I seem to be walking in a way that put's a lot of strain on my knees and lower back. Perhaps that is subject matter for another thread but I still would like to ask... anybody here have experience dealing with the knee pain? __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

January 19th, 2004, 12:18 AM	#25
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	FWIW, I know that Marzpak, or a similar cable suspension device, is rather popular with full-size camera operators. In their case I believe that the attraction is principally that of load redistribution. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

January 16th, 2004, 09:44 AM	#19
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	For me I can handhold a 20 pound shoulder mount camera rock solid, but I have a more difficult time with the lightweight "handycam" type cameras. Most of the above suggestions are good, especially keeping elbows in. I also take a deep breath and exhale slowly while shooting. If you have to breath in, you usually get a camera motion. Of course the number one thing is to shoot at a wide angle. The minute you zoom in, you're screwed for a solid hand held shot. Best thing to do is get some kind of shoulder mount, as Beasleigh suggested, if you need to do a lot of handheld work.

January 17th, 2004, 12:50 PM	#20
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I'll second the Marzpak, it's the best money i ever spent. You actually get more for your dollar on this one. Superb workmanship and great customer service. The rig really works. For a low cost and hands only I had mentioned the mini Rover., The mini rover is a grip that allows you to add a mic and /or a receiver as well as maintain a steady grip on the camera. With the mini rover held to your chest, your upper arms and elbows are locked into your upperbody. The only way the camera can shake is if your whole body shakes. The camera moves in concert with your whole upper body and you can reduce even a heaving ship or bumpy jeep ride to a controlled roll. For $450 you can have the whole enchilada, the MarzPak and the Mini Rover. For an extra few bucks the MarPak has an add on fanny pak that will hold 8 cold ones and two king cans , one on either side. You can strap a whole lot of gear to that puppy and carry it in comfort. Like I said , this thread has been repeated more than a few times. Using search will open up a lot of info. It's easier to search than type in all of the same info every few weeks.

January 17th, 2004, 03:26 PM	#22
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	All the time but it has nothing to do with the way I walk holding a video camera. If your kness hurt doing the Groucho walk loosen up a little but remember walking like that for an extended period of time is not really how our legs were made to work. Keep your shots shorter OR you might need to look into some sort of vested stabilising device. Don

January 18th, 2004, 04:53 PM	#23
Matthew de Jongh Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: sounthern maine Posts: 344	i went through this a few weeks ago, i got a new camera (dvx-100a) and the shots were beautiful but shaky. everyone told me to get a mini-rover but i resisted, i finally got one and i wouldn't give it up for anything. there is that stupid looking thing you were on your back and the camera dangles over your head, but a steadi shot isn't worth looking that stupid :) matthew

January 19th, 2004, 12:09 AM	#24
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Mathew The Marzpak's beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The workmanship is fantastic and the rig looks very professional, it also works a damn site better then any of those shoulder mounts. The braces with the dual arms mounted at arms length are nothing but a cool looking backbreaker. That was the best value I've seen so far as video gear goes. I believe it was me that turned you onto the Rover and now you tell me I look stupid. Oh well. I forgive you. (My Mum taught me how to use guilt :)))

January 19th, 2004, 01:29 AM	#26
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	"In their case I believe that the attraction is principally that of load redistribution." It puts the load on your hips.

January 19th, 2004, 07:57 AM	#27
Federico Dib Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 312	I´ll mention three reasons why I might use handheld. 1. - Sometimes I might just want to blend in with the tourists... The XM-2 VX2000 or whatever allready looks to big... Even a MiniRover will make you stand out too much. But still I want to get the best shot possible. 2. - Sometimes I might be "The Tourist".. I still want to get a great shot. And probably I won´t be packing a tripod to haul around. I´m a very light travel tourist. 3. - Handheld shots are an artistic option, the same as a travelling or a crane... When used right they can be very powerfull.. but just because it´s a handheld shot it doesn´t mean it has to be "shaky" like lot of wannabe Dogma style I´ve seen around. __________________ Messenger Boy : The Thessalonian you're fighting, he's the biggest man I've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him. Achilles : That is why no one will remember your name.

January 19th, 2004, 02:00 PM	#28
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	How about a helmet cam fastened to a set of glasses? __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

January 19th, 2004, 03:57 PM	#29
Matthew de Jongh Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: sounthern maine Posts: 344	i think a helmet cam, or better yet a full size camera on a football helmet would look more stylish, would get all of those people with the marzipan thingie jealous! matthew

May 3rd, 2006, 02:22 AM	#30
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Two and a half years old, but still an excellent thread. Stuck. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!