XL2 - Flowpod or Fig Rig or Steadicam etc ...

Charles Papert · July 13th, 2005, 07:58 AM

Dan,

hmm...re-reading my post, I wouldn't want to insult anyone. What I meant by 'stand on the sidelines' is the tendency I have seen is to bitch about what a massive profit companies must be making off this and that piece of equipment because they feel they could make it themselves for a fraction of the cost; while the latter may be true, they are not taking into account the overhead (personnel, operating costs, advertising etc.) that a manufacturer faces, and that many of these companies are not realizing anywhere near the profit that some feel they are. It's the "I think it should cost simply because I want it and I can't afford it" philosophy, as well as the "I can't see why a follow focus should cost half as much as my camera" without understanding the economics of a hand-assembled piece of gear from a small company vs a mass-produced piece of electronics from a massive company.

Dan Selakovich · July 13th, 2005, 08:15 AM

Let's not forget R&D! When designing rigs for my book, a huge amount of cash spewed forth in trial and error. Frankly, I don't know how a lot of these companies make it considering the small market (Hey, it's not like everybody needs a follow focus like a toothbrush!). I'm working on rigs for Volume 2 of "Killer Camera Rigs" and the cash outlay for parts and experimenting is considerable. And lord knows I go back to the drawing board more than once. And I'm sure once the beta builders get a hold of the new plans, there will be more futzing. I agree with you completely Charles: people just don't know what goes into this stuff. It took a year of sales for Volume 1 just for me to break even, and I don't even have to deal with mass manufacturing! Then there's that nasty fact that we don't have any copyright/patent agreement with China where the threat of cheap knock-offs are always looming over a company's innovation.

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com

K. Forman · July 13th, 2005, 08:36 AM

Can anyone explain the purpose of a fig rig? It looks like a bus's steering wheel to me.

Danny Natovich · July 13th, 2005, 12:11 PM

Dan and Charles,

Thanks for presenting the product costs so clearly, Thank you for talking about this issue.
We (The Manufacturers) can't do it, If we do, No one will believe us...

Danny Natovich
DvTec

Leigh Wanstead · July 13th, 2005, 01:59 PM

Hi Dan,

There is a patent fee involved too for me. I have to budget US$100,000 for that process and consider a patent law suit will cost on average one million US dollars. All my savings now goes to my stablizer business without seeing one sell.

It is dear.

All these expense must be realized by selling the products.

Regards
Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Selakovich

Let's not forget R&D! When designing rigs for my book, a huge amount of cash spewed forth in trial and error. Frankly, I don't know how a lot of these companies make it considering the small market (Hey, it's not like everybody needs a follow focus like a toothbrush!). I'm working on rigs for Volume 2 of "Killer Camera Rigs" and the cash outlay for parts and experimenting is considerable. And lord knows I go back to the drawing board more than once. And I'm sure once the beta builders get a hold of the new plans, there will be more futzing. I agree with you completely Charles: people just don't know what goes into this stuff. It took a year of sales for Volume 1 just for me to break even, and I don't even have to deal with mass manufacturing! Then there's that nasty fact that we don't have any copyright/patent agreement with China where the threat of cheap knock-offs are always looming over a company's innovation.

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com

Leigh Wanstead · July 13th, 2005, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

Can anyone explain the purpose of a fig rig? It looks like a bus's steering wheel to me.

I guess that the purpose of a fig rig is you can attach lots of extra components on the camera like a holder around the circle.

Regards
Leigh

Dan Selakovich · July 14th, 2005, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leigh Wanstead

Hi Dan,

There is a patent fee involved too for me. I have to budget US$100,000 for that process and consider a patent law suit will cost on average one million US dollars. All my savings now goes to my stablizer business without seeing one sell.

It is dear.

All these expense must be realized by selling the products.

Regards
Leigh

How could I forget that! I've got a rig in the patent pipeline, and I'll be skipping rent for the next year to pay for it. Hope my Landlord understands!

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com

Brian Wells · July 14th, 2005, 07:47 PM

Leigh-

There are already several manufacturers of camera stabilizers, as you are aware. Some are selling for much less than the price a Steadicam Flyer, like the Magiqcam, for example.

A manufacturer must also determine how many units they could sell in constrast to the amount of time and money it will require to have a functional unit. Often times, the investment is not worth the return.

Additionally, I am not certain if a stabilizer, using the components and basic technologies required for an economical product, are even patentable.

In the US, we have a phrase, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."
Have you heard of it?

best wishes-
Brian

Leigh Wanstead · July 14th, 2005, 10:44 PM

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your advice.

You are very kind. ;-)

Regards
Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian A. Wells

Leigh-

There are already several manufacturers of camera stabilizers, as you are aware. Some are selling for much less than the price a Steadicam Flyer, like the Magiqcam, for example.

A manufacturer must also determine how many units they could sell in constrast to the amount of time and money it will require to have a functional unit. Often times, the investment is not worth the return.

Additionally, I am not certain if a stabilizer, using the components and basic technologies required for an economical product, are even patentable.

In the US, we have a phrase, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."
Have you heard of it?

best wishes-
Brian

July 13th, 2005, 07:58 AM	#16
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Dan, hmm...re-reading my post, I wouldn't want to insult anyone. What I meant by 'stand on the sidelines' is the tendency I have seen is to bitch about what a massive profit companies must be making off this and that piece of equipment because they feel they could make it themselves for a fraction of the cost; while the latter may be true, they are not taking into account the overhead (personnel, operating costs, advertising etc.) that a manufacturer faces, and that many of these companies are not realizing anywhere near the profit that some feel they are. It's the "I think it should cost simply because I want it and I can't afford it" philosophy, as well as the "I can't see why a follow focus should cost half as much as my camera" without understanding the economics of a hand-assembled piece of gear from a small company vs a mass-produced piece of electronics from a massive company. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

July 13th, 2005, 08:36 AM	#18
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Can anyone explain the purpose of a fig rig? It looks like a bus's steering wheel to me. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 13th, 2005, 08:15 AM	#17
Dan Selakovich Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 220	Let's not forget R&D! When designing rigs for my book, a huge amount of cash spewed forth in trial and error. Frankly, I don't know how a lot of these companies make it considering the small market (Hey, it's not like everybody needs a follow focus like a toothbrush!). I'm working on rigs for Volume 2 of "Killer Camera Rigs" and the cash outlay for parts and experimenting is considerable. And lord knows I go back to the drawing board more than once. And I'm sure once the beta builders get a hold of the new plans, there will be more futzing. I agree with you completely Charles: people just don't know what goes into this stuff. It took a year of sales for Volume 1 just for me to break even, and I don't even have to deal with mass manufacturing! Then there's that nasty fact that we don't have any copyright/patent agreement with China where the threat of cheap knock-offs are always looming over a company's innovation. Dan www.DVcameraRigs.com

July 13th, 2005, 12:11 PM	#19
Danny Natovich DV Rig Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tel Aviv Israel Posts: 233	Dan and Charles, Thanks for presenting the product costs so clearly, Thank you for talking about this issue. We (The Manufacturers) can't do it, If we do, No one will believe us... Danny Natovich DvTec

July 14th, 2005, 07:47 PM	#23
Brian Wells Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 143	Leigh- There are already several manufacturers of camera stabilizers, as you are aware. Some are selling for much less than the price a Steadicam Flyer, like the Magiqcam, for example. A manufacturer must also determine how many units they could sell in constrast to the amount of time and money it will require to have a functional unit. Often times, the investment is not worth the return. Additionally, I am not certain if a stabilizer, using the components and basic technologies required for an economical product, are even patentable. In the US, we have a phrase, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket." Have you heard of it? best wishes- Brian