Adobe Premiere Pro 7.0 Released - Decisions, Decisions!

Nigel Moore · July 8th, 2003, 03:31 AM

Glen, sorry I took it the wrong way. Thinking about it I know what you meant.

Quote:

Btw, what are your personal reasons for not trying Vegas?

Most of my apps are Adobe, so they fit well together. I was looking forward to EncoreDVD so that AP, AE and PS would have a DVD export option that worked within the workflow.

I addition, I've been very happy with the export from Premiere to Cleaner 5 using the plug-in. I output a lot of QT to web, and it worked for me. Then I made the mistake of downgrading to Cleaner XL, and there's no plug-in anymore.

But the best thing about AP for me is the A/B edit. I like that. I'm not an intuitive single track editor. Nor do I like keyboard shortcuts...my mind's too full of crap as it is! ;-)

But this morning I read a couple of reviews on Premiere Pro over at the Cow. There's same way cool stuff in there....but A/B editing is out, and the toolbar requires the use of keyboard shortcuts to select tool variants. So, you didn't need to rain on my parade after all (not that you meant to)...Adobe's done a pretty good job of it itself.

Hans Henrik Bang · July 8th, 2003, 04:06 AM

A lot has been said about Premiere and stability. I used to run it on an Win ME on Athlon CPU (with a few heat issues, CPU core temperature as high as 89 Celsius). That was quite unstable.

Now running on Win XP pro and a P4, and havent had Premiere crash once.

I tend to believe that the switch to XP made the biggest difference, but my point is just that Premiere stability seems to be heavily influenced by your platform.

Looking forward to trying Premiere 7.0 too :)

Hans Henrik

Glen Elliott · July 8th, 2003, 04:40 AM

Nigel, I'm the same way. I've grown accustomed to editing in an A/B workspace. It just seems so much easier to tweak the lenght and timing of transitions, etc. Believe it or not Vegas has A/B as well- there is a little symbol in the track list to open up the track to break video 1 into A and B rolls with a transition track in between. People said once I get in there I wont want to edit that way..once I started working with the default (single track) view for transitions, they were right. You have just as much control in single track in Vegas as you do in A/B. You can highlight the edge of a transition and drag either direction to adjust timing. Not to mention all you have to do to initiate a transition is overlap two clips by draging one over the other. It's pretty nifty how it also defaults to a cross fade (dissolve), my most used transition- plus you get to tweak the "curve" of the transition. All of Premieres are simply linear transitions.
Excuse me for sounding like a Sonic Foundry salesman- I'm just very enthusiastic about learning this new program and feel the need to share it with fellow Premiere editors. Take care.

Glen Elliott · July 8th, 2003, 08:04 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Hans Henrik Bang : A lot has been said about Premiere and stability. I used to run it on an Win ME on Athlon CPU (with a few heat issues, CPU core temperature as high as 89 Celsius). That was quite unstable.

Now running on Win XP pro and a P4, and havent had Premiere crash once.

I tend to believe that the switch to XP made the biggest difference, but my point is just that Premiere stability seems to be heavily influenced by your platform.

Looking forward to trying Premiere 7.0 too :)

Hans Henrik -->>>

Hans, XP helped my Premiere performance too but didn't solve it. It all depends on how complicated of edits you try and do. If you simply layer footage and ad a transition here and there it works fine. It's when you try to add multible effects, reverse the footage (-100% speed setting), and work with virtual clips is when it's starts acting up....for me at least.
I don't understand how Adobe could make such rock solid programs such as Adobe Photoshop but skimp on their flagship NLE. Lets hope this new incarnation of Premiere will carry Photoshops rock-solid stability.

*Btw, I've actually had Photoshop crash on me, well ImageReady I should say- it was after working with a rather large Animated Gif*

Craig Jones · July 8th, 2003, 08:56 AM

Photoshop doesn't interface with 3rd party hardware. Speed adjustments, even reverse, and virtual clips were never a stability problem for me.

The problem with Premiere is that it's a kitchen sink application that's expected to support a thousand different hardware products that Adobe has no control over. Premiere is blamed much like Windows is. I've never had stability issues with Windows 2000, either. I'm no Adobe or Microsoft apologist, but smaller companies simply don't have a big problem with this.

That said, Adobe has a reputation for letting serious problems go unfixed for a long time and their support is nonexistant.

Bill Ravens · July 8th, 2003, 09:08 AM

Man, I'd sure wait a bit to see what the user community has to say. I used to be an ADOBE PREMIERE user, now I'm absolutely sold on Vegas 4. Behind me, I leave a history of lost files, freeze ups and poor quality with Premiere. It wouldn't be so infuriating if I hadn't been led down the garden path by Adobe's inflated claims, elitist attitude and overinflated price under the guise of a professional NLE. Now I know better. Curiously, the new release of Premiere Pro sure seems to mimic qualities that Vegas has had since version 3 and improved on in version 4. Is it the competition that's finally forced ADOBE to do some technology upgrading to its woefully under-developed NLE? It sure seems so. Personally, I've had it with their elitism. Vegas serves me well...and it does it at a fraction of the cost.

Glen Elliott · July 8th, 2003, 10:10 AM

Bill makes a good point. What about the aspect of cost. Premiere cost more than twice as much as Vegas!

Craig Jones · July 8th, 2003, 01:47 PM

I feel qualified to comment on price since I just bought Vegas+DVD for $700 and just ordered the standard Adobe bundle for $800. The difference is that the Adobe bundle includes After Effects and Encore in addition to the NLE and DVD authoring. Premiere Pro's retail is $700 compared to Vegas' $490 (recently reduced from $700). Hardly twice the price. I hope you guys have a better argument than cheap since the "fraction of the cost" Bill refers to is 7/10 and less. Street is probably closer still.

Nigel Moore · July 8th, 2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

the Adobe bundle includes After Effects and Encore in addition to the NLE and DVD authoring

Encore is DVD authoring. The standard bundle also includes Audition.

Signed

S.M. Artarse

Glen Elliott · July 8th, 2003, 02:30 PM

Keith,Yeah but what was the original cost of Premiere? $600?
$600 + $199 doesn't sound like any better of a deal.

Craig, if you just bought it for that much- you got ripped. DV Direct was selling Vegas+DVD for $399. Today the price was raised to $449...and thats with DVD Architech and the AC-3 encoder.

K. Forman · July 8th, 2003, 02:48 PM

Well, it seems to me that most of the people praising Vegas and smashing Premiere, are former Premiere users. So, unless you were using a pirate copy, you have a valid copy of Premiere, and are eligable for the upgrade. $200 sounds like a savings compared to $400.

And I got my copy of Premiere with my edit card.

Craig Jones · July 8th, 2003, 02:56 PM

Oops. I meant Audition.

I wouldn't put it past SOFO to rip me or anyone else then.

So Glen, what you're saying is that we should compare your street price for Vegas to full retail on Adobe's website? Why don't you post your justification for the "more than twice" the cost claim so we can ridicule it. My comparision was fair and accurate. If your friend would sell you a copy of VV4 for $1 would Premiere be 799 times more expensive?

Anyway, at Provantage you can buy a full version of Premiere for $249 and get a firewire card for free. Look here and you'll find Vegas+DVD for $259. If you bought from DV Direct, Glen, you got ripped.

Glen Elliott · July 8th, 2003, 03:00 PM

Keith, what I was saying was you had to buy Premiere in the first place...so comparing the upgrade price to the price of the full version of Vegas isn't a fair comparison.

Admittedly you are right about former Premiere users bashing Premiere. I for one find myself in that catagory which has got a few people a bit angry with me- people, apparently get slightly offended when you bash their software. Likewise I feel the same way when Craig, for example, argues against Vegas. It's the typical "I want him to see it my way" mentality I often fall victim to. *sorry guys*

Glen Elliott · July 8th, 2003, 03:08 PM

Craig, your right it isn't fair to compare a retail price of one product against a street of another....good point.
However, going by the comparison you used, your comparing two programs vs one. Vegas+DVD is a full featured NLE with 5.1 surround, AC-3 encoding, and a DVD authoring program...I'd hope it'd be a bit more expensive than simply Premiere 6.0 by it'self.
If you want to compare apples to apples compare Vegas+DVD vs Premiere 6 and Encore. Or better yet Premiere Pro and Encore, because comparing Premiere 6 to Vegas 4.0 in itself isn't fair- Vegas is a newer release with a much more robust set of features.

Speaking of former Premiere users- you sound like a disgruntled Vegas user. You share my dislike of Premiere, for Vegas. I can respect that. But when you wanna compare more than preference and get down to features Premiere really can't compare. At least until Premiere Pro.

Craig Jones · July 8th, 2003, 03:09 PM

I don't argue against Vegas. I just point out that Vegas does not do everything Premiere does. You made that claim. How do you like Vegas's garbage mattes?

Glen, you were the one putting down Premiere in a Premiere topic. If you refute my claim that Vegas doesn't do virtual clips, then demonstrate how to do them. Likewise support your claim that Premiere costs more than twice as much as Vegas.

I don't dislike Vegas, I dislike claims that it does things it can't do.

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July 8th, 2003, 04:06 AM	#17
Hans Henrik Bang Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Frederiksberg, Denmark Posts: 133	A lot has been said about Premiere and stability. I used to run it on an Win ME on Athlon CPU (with a few heat issues, CPU core temperature as high as 89 Celsius). That was quite unstable. Now running on Win XP pro and a P4, and havent had Premiere crash once. I tend to believe that the switch to XP made the biggest difference, but my point is just that Premiere stability seems to be heavily influenced by your platform. Looking forward to trying Premiere 7.0 too :) Hans Henrik

July 8th, 2003, 04:40 AM	#18
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Nigel, I'm the same way. I've grown accustomed to editing in an A/B workspace. It just seems so much easier to tweak the lenght and timing of transitions, etc. Believe it or not Vegas has A/B as well- there is a little symbol in the track list to open up the track to break video 1 into A and B rolls with a transition track in between. People said once I get in there I wont want to edit that way..once I started working with the default (single track) view for transitions, they were right. You have just as much control in single track in Vegas as you do in A/B. You can highlight the edge of a transition and drag either direction to adjust timing. Not to mention all you have to do to initiate a transition is overlap two clips by draging one over the other. It's pretty nifty how it also defaults to a cross fade (dissolve), my most used transition- plus you get to tweak the "curve" of the transition. All of Premieres are simply linear transitions. Excuse me for sounding like a Sonic Foundry salesman- I'm just very enthusiastic about learning this new program and feel the need to share it with fellow Premiere editors. Take care.

July 8th, 2003, 08:04 AM	#19
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	<<<-- Originally posted by Hans Henrik Bang : A lot has been said about Premiere and stability. I used to run it on an Win ME on Athlon CPU (with a few heat issues, CPU core temperature as high as 89 Celsius). That was quite unstable. Now running on Win XP pro and a P4, and havent had Premiere crash once. I tend to believe that the switch to XP made the biggest difference, but my point is just that Premiere stability seems to be heavily influenced by your platform. Looking forward to trying Premiere 7.0 too :) Hans Henrik -->>> Hans, XP helped my Premiere performance too but didn't solve it. It all depends on how complicated of edits you try and do. If you simply layer footage and ad a transition here and there it works fine. It's when you try to add multible effects, reverse the footage (-100% speed setting), and work with virtual clips is when it's starts acting up....for me at least. I don't understand how Adobe could make such rock solid programs such as Adobe Photoshop but skimp on their flagship NLE. Lets hope this new incarnation of Premiere will carry Photoshops rock-solid stability. Btw, I've actually had Photoshop crash on me, well ImageReady I should say- it was after working with a rather large Animated Gif

July 8th, 2003, 08:56 AM	#20
Craig Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 105	Photoshop doesn't interface with 3rd party hardware. Speed adjustments, even reverse, and virtual clips were never a stability problem for me. The problem with Premiere is that it's a kitchen sink application that's expected to support a thousand different hardware products that Adobe has no control over. Premiere is blamed much like Windows is. I've never had stability issues with Windows 2000, either. I'm no Adobe or Microsoft apologist, but smaller companies simply don't have a big problem with this. That said, Adobe has a reputation for letting serious problems go unfixed for a long time and their support is nonexistant.

July 8th, 2003, 09:08 AM	#21
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Man, I'd sure wait a bit to see what the user community has to say. I used to be an ADOBE PREMIERE user, now I'm absolutely sold on Vegas 4. Behind me, I leave a history of lost files, freeze ups and poor quality with Premiere. It wouldn't be so infuriating if I hadn't been led down the garden path by Adobe's inflated claims, elitist attitude and overinflated price under the guise of a professional NLE. Now I know better. Curiously, the new release of Premiere Pro sure seems to mimic qualities that Vegas has had since version 3 and improved on in version 4. Is it the competition that's finally forced ADOBE to do some technology upgrading to its woefully under-developed NLE? It sure seems so. Personally, I've had it with their elitism. Vegas serves me well...and it does it at a fraction of the cost.

July 8th, 2003, 10:10 AM	#22
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Bill makes a good point. What about the aspect of cost. Premiere cost more than twice as much as Vegas!

July 8th, 2003, 01:47 PM	#23
Craig Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 105	I feel qualified to comment on price since I just bought Vegas+DVD for $700 and just ordered the standard Adobe bundle for $800. The difference is that the Adobe bundle includes After Effects and Encore in addition to the NLE and DVD authoring. Premiere Pro's retail is $700 compared to Vegas' $490 (recently reduced from $700). Hardly twice the price. I hope you guys have a better argument than cheap since the "fraction of the cost" Bill refers to is 7/10 and less. Street is probably closer still.

July 8th, 2003, 02:30 PM	#25
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Keith,Yeah but what was the original cost of Premiere? $600? $600 + $199 doesn't sound like any better of a deal. Craig, if you just bought it for that much- you got ripped. DV Direct was selling Vegas+DVD for $399. Today the price was raised to $449...and thats with DVD Architech and the AC-3 encoder.

July 8th, 2003, 02:48 PM	#26
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Well, it seems to me that most of the people praising Vegas and smashing Premiere, are former Premiere users. So, unless you were using a pirate copy, you have a valid copy of Premiere, and are eligable for the upgrade. $200 sounds like a savings compared to $400. And I got my copy of Premiere with my edit card.

July 8th, 2003, 02:56 PM	#27
Craig Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 105	Oops. I meant Audition. I wouldn't put it past SOFO to rip me or anyone else then. So Glen, what you're saying is that we should compare your street price for Vegas to full retail on Adobe's website? Why don't you post your justification for the "more than twice" the cost claim so we can ridicule it. My comparision was fair and accurate. If your friend would sell you a copy of VV4 for $1 would Premiere be 799 times more expensive? Anyway, at Provantage you can buy a full version of Premiere for $249 and get a firewire card for free. Look here and you'll find Vegas+DVD for $259. If you bought from DV Direct, Glen, you got ripped.

July 8th, 2003, 03:00 PM	#28
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Keith, what I was saying was you had to buy Premiere in the first place...so comparing the upgrade price to the price of the full version of Vegas isn't a fair comparison. Admittedly you are right about former Premiere users bashing Premiere. I for one find myself in that catagory which has got a few people a bit angry with me- people, apparently get slightly offended when you bash their software. Likewise I feel the same way when Craig, for example, argues against Vegas. It's the typical "I want him to see it my way" mentality I often fall victim to. sorry guys

July 8th, 2003, 03:08 PM	#29
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Craig, your right it isn't fair to compare a retail price of one product against a street of another....good point. However, going by the comparison you used, your comparing two programs vs one. Vegas+DVD is a full featured NLE with 5.1 surround, AC-3 encoding, and a DVD authoring program...I'd hope it'd be a bit more expensive than simply Premiere 6.0 by it'self. If you want to compare apples to apples compare Vegas+DVD vs Premiere 6 and Encore. Or better yet Premiere Pro and Encore, because comparing Premiere 6 to Vegas 4.0 in itself isn't fair- Vegas is a newer release with a much more robust set of features. Speaking of former Premiere users- you sound like a disgruntled Vegas user. You share my dislike of Premiere, for Vegas. I can respect that. But when you wanna compare more than preference and get down to features Premiere really can't compare. At least until Premiere Pro.

July 8th, 2003, 03:09 PM	#30
Craig Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 105	I don't argue against Vegas. I just point out that Vegas does not do everything Premiere does. You made that claim. How do you like Vegas's garbage mattes? Glen, you were the one putting down Premiere in a Premiere topic. If you refute my claim that Vegas doesn't do virtual clips, then demonstrate how to do them. Likewise support your claim that Premiere costs more than twice as much as Vegas. I don't dislike Vegas, I dislike claims that it does things it can't do.