Adobe encoder (CS4) crashing my PC - no idea why
 

AME has been causing my PC to crash for a while now and I've spent days trying to fix it.
A few days ago i re-jigged the hard drives around and have set it up as follows.


C drive = 300GB (10,000rpm) > Boot drive with Vista 64 OS & all other programs including CS4

D drive = 300GB (10,000rpm) > Project files & cinform neo & scratch disk

E drive = RAID-0 for all media
1.5TB (7,200rpm)
1.5TB (7,200rpm)
1.5TB (7,200rpm)


PC build is:
i7 (920@2.67GHz)
6.00GB ram
ATI Radeon 4870 x2 graphics card with 2GB ram

All updates done.


AME has been running great for the last few days with the new set up with no crashes. Even last night i was exporting videos without any problem.

This morning, it's started crashing to a blue screen again with the following message....

Page_Fault_In_Non_Page_Area.

I've also had the IRQL_Not_Less_Or_Equal area come up once, but it's mainly the Page Fault error.

I also tried exporting the same videos i was exporting yesterday and they are crashing as well now. It ahppens just after AME starts encoding.

I'm totally frustrated now and don't know what to do!!!! AME is unworkable.

The only thing I'm guessing at is that it may be a scratch disk problem???

Anyone got any ideas as to what it is and what the fix is, before I throw everything out the window?

Thanks

EDIT: I have another 300GB (10,000rpm) disk being delivered today. Anything i can do with that?

Could be a bad piece of RAM

Tested the RAM with Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool. The RAM appears to be fine.

Try memTest (free download). See:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/1013532-post2.html

Thanks Pete.

Have ran it for 10 hours and 15 passes and no errors found in the RAM.

I'll give it a couple of more days and then re-install the Os...again!!!

:(

Problem is still there.

Going to get windows 7 and see if that helps.

Apart from that, have no idea what else to do.

Page faults are normally faulty ram but can be caused by drivers as well. Since you have reinstalled and used the latest drivers?

Few other things to think of is your PC Overclocked?

Are the temps hot?

One thing to try is disconnect all HDDs other than the OS disk and try it then, might rule out the other drives.

Let me know how it goes.

Thanks David.

It looks like it's the CPU temp. It's hitting the high 90c during encoding.

I changed the BIOS setting, increasing the allowable temp and it hasn't crashed. So that problem is solved. Thanks for the help.

The problem now is, why the CPU is overheating even though i have a massive heatsink on it!!!

Great,

Couple of other things to check. Is the fan spinning at the correct RPM?

Is the fan blowing air onto the HSF, make sure it isnt sucking air.

Do you have any exhaust fans in place to vent out the heat?

If that fails then remove the heatsink and apply some thermal compound onto the CPU (Make sure you clean/remove any before re adding)

Add HSF and test temps again.

90c is way too high!!!

What CPU cooler do you have installed? What case do you use? What additional fans do you have?

Running the same i7-920 @ 3.6 GHz overclocked, I have less than 40c idle and less than 65c under heavy load. Just encoding will not raise the temperature over 58c in my case.

I have the following:

Case: Antec 1200 - Case has 3 front fans, 1 on top and 2 rear.
http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MTEzMw==

i7 fan: Akasa AK-967
Akasa Thermal Solution

Motherboard: Gigabyte EX58-UD3R



Currently idling between 65 - 68 and that's with the case open!!!

No obstructions to the fans and everything cleaned.

I'm going to remove the cpu fan and re-attach it again with new paste. Hopefully that will work

Just done a re-test and when teh encoder is running the temp is reaching over 100.

Also the cooler fins aren't warm at all so it looks like it's not connected properly.

These results are way too high, under the assumption that, being based in London, you are talking Centigrade, not Fahrenheit.

Idle my i7-920 overclocked to 3.6 GHz shows these results with an ambient temperature of 20 C:

Here's my results Harm.

It's definetly running too hot.

I've re-installed the cooler a few times now and changed the thermal bond as well as nothings changed.

The fins still stay cool.

In that case it may be worthwhile to have a look at another CPU cooler, something like the Scythe Mugen 2, Prolimatech Megahalem, Noctua NH-D14 (my favorite), Noctua NH-U12P SE2 or the Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme.

Preferably look at those coolers that easily allow push-pull fan configurations, like the Noctua.

Its not the cooler. Its either a bad thermal sensor on the motherboard or a bad chip. I have read about many X58 boards with thermal sensor issues so contact Gigabyte for help and/or replacement.

For that other 10k rpm (I'm assuming a Velociraptor), I would return it or sell it and get an Intel X 25 80GB G2 SSD. I went from 4 74GB Raptors in Raid to the Intel X 25 for the OS and programs and its insane how much faster the SSD is. Booting takes seconds; as soon as you see your desktop, you are ready to go; Photoshop opens in 2 seconds. Plus, no moving parts to break.

I wasn't aware of those problems, but it makes much more sense than the ridiculous temperature readings the OP is getting.

Unfortunately, I must add my experience tonight with the exact same problem. AME encoded the first video which took 18 minutes and was encoding the 2nd video. I started to play the encoded video and it BSOD'd me with the same page fault error. I am currently encoding the 2nd video and opened CoreTemp .99.5 to check the temps. All 4 cores are hovering at 71 C with 100% CPU load.

Harm, could you please use CoreTemp and tell me what you are getting under full load? FYI, I have the i7 920 at stock clock with a Zalman 9500. I just got the Noctua NH-U12P SE1366 in hopes of coming close to Harm's overclock but haven't installed it yet. And Harm, is your i7 920 a revision "D0"?

Steve,

While encoding a HDV timeline to MPEG2-DVD with maximum render quality on and running the i7-920 C revision at a clock speed of 3.6 GHz, I get these results after about one hour running under full load. After stopping the encoding, the temps very quickly return to around 36 C.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Looks like it's the cooler.

I used a different thermal compound and it's reduced the temp considerably. Still not as low as it should be though.

Having looked at the Akasa cooler, I think the problem is that the copper conducter is not fully flush with the base. I'm going to get another cooler and compare.

Will also check the motherboard as well.

Syeed,

This looks completely normal. Maybe the different cooling paste makes the necessary difference. It is a sizable difference with earlier results. Much improved.

Just encoded a video now and no crash. So looks like it's all sorted now.

Can't believe I wasted so much time trying to fix it just for it to be the thermal stuff.

The one that didn't work is the "Akasa thermal adhesive tape". Avoid at all cost!!!

Once again thanks for all your help guys.

Wow, I didn't think the thermal paste/tape could make that much of a difference. I have always used Arctic Thermal compound and remember reading that it only provides about a 5 C degree reduction under load compared to generic paste.

In my own testing when I first got an Intel Q6600 and Zalman 9500, I tried different setups with the fans to get the lowest temp possible. I noticed that it takes a day or two for the thermal paste to 'settle' in and provide maximum conductivity.

Harm, my revision is the most recent but your temps aren't much higher than mine. You are using the big Noctua, right? (I posted the model I have yet to install but it should be the same as ours)

One more thing: any chance you have or could write an overclock guide for the i7? I am used to OC'ing the prior 775 chips but there is so much new and different with the i7's settings.

Thanks

Steve,

This is for ASUS P6T boards, but can also apply to other X58 boards. The BIOS settings may have different names however.

When overclocking, most of us here, editors, have only ONE thing in mind: STABILITY!!!

We are not trying to get the highest benchmark scores, even though they are nice, we want to be able to edit and encode reliably, even under long load times with large projects. So what most of us are interested in is what settings in the BIOS can we safely make that allows us to run reliably for very long times, even 24 hours encodes, and still get good (notice, not BEST) performance, without shortening the longevity of our system in any significant way.

Overclocking means that you run your system harder than it was designed and approved for. Just as a comparison, when you walk around the block, you will not get into a sweat, but running around the block several times, you may start to sweat, depending on your condition. Same with a PC, so cooling is important. What causes the temperature rise in computers? Simple, the increased wattage required to run at higher speeds in the same way you burn more calories when running instead of walking. This effectively means you have to balance the increased wattage in your PC with the temperatures inside. Somewhat like Louis Armstrong once said: "Everybody has a given number of heartbeats and I'm not going to waste them on jogging". (Obesitas was never a big concern to him. Maybe it should have been.)

The i7 CPU is well known for its overclock capability. The 920 entry model has a clock frequency of 2.66 GHZ, which is achieved by a BCLK setting of 133 and a multiplier of 20. 20 x 133 = 2666 MHz or 2.66 GHz. At this standard setting the TDP (Thermal Design Power) is 130 W. When you enable Turbo mode in the BIOS of your mobo, the multiplier can vary between 12 and 21, depending on CPU load, so effectively the CPU clock can vary between 1596 (12 x 133) MHz and 2793 (21 x 133) MHz. The CPU will throttle down to save energy to the lower multiplier when idle and throttle back up when under load.

When you experiment with different BCLK (base clock) settings, you will find that the number 172 for BCLK will increase your clock frequency to 2064 (12 x 172) MHz when idle and 3612 (21 x 172) MHz under load. With all settings on AUTO in the BIOS for the different voltages, you will see that the CPU voltage rises to 1.272V (which is well below the Intel maximum of 1.5V for this CPU) and TDP increases to 152 W, up from the standard 130 W. You will also see an increase in CPU temperature and with other components, so you have to watch those carefully, especially if you use the very mediocre stock Intel CPU cooler. You will also notice that the RAM voltage remains constant at 1.5V

I have experimented with a lot of different settings, using BCLK at 183, 192, 202 and other settings, but always leaving all voltage regulations on auto to start with, testing with demanding applications like Prime95 and the PassMark system benchmark to test for stability, watching for the voltages and temperatures of CPU and other components. When I found a reasonably stable setting, I increased the memory voltage up to 1.65V to see if that gave improved stability for a longer time.

In the end I decided on some very simple standard settings for my system that can hold up very reliably under duress:

BCLK at 172, CPU voltage at 1.275V, PCI bridge at 110%, video card at 800 MHz GPU and video memory at 1100 MHz, RAM on auto voltage at 1.5V, but DDR3-Frequency at 1376 MHz (I use DDR3-1333 sticks).

In case I am pressed for time I can easily increase my BCLK settings to 180 to further OC my system, if the need arises, or even further, but 180 BCLK is the highest setting I can achieve without raising voltages.

Like some doctors say, streching your legs is healthy, but don't overdo it.

PS: Real overclockers/tweakers will easily find better settings, but this suffices for a senior hobbyist like me.

Harm... it's tremendous to have a resource such as yourself that bridges the significant gap between editor and computer tech. I'm learning a lot from your posts and the varied exchanges here, and elsewhere... namely your opinions on RAID. Good stuff.

Marty,

Thanks for the compliment.

You may have seen this link before and if that is the case my apologies, but if not, it may be interesting to you: Adobe Forums: How to get the best from a PC? Some...

Nearly 50,000 reads on the three articles show that some people found it interesting. Maybe the same applies to you.

I'm one of them and I look forward to reading more articles from you.

When are you migrating to Windows 7?

I already have, to Win7-64 Pro, fresh install and it is around 10% faster than Vista. It looks more stable and has a smaller footprint. I currently have Win7-64 Pro, CS4 Master Collection, and all my usual accessories and plug-ins installed, MB Looks, SA Color Finesse, Surcode, Pixelan, and the like and it only requires 30 GB of disk space. It sure looks good.

You can see the results on PPBM4 home page where you see that with a 5% lower clock speed I still got a 5% better benchmark result.

Look for 'Harm's Beast' (Bill invented that name)

The maximum operating temperature of an AMD processor is determined by the processor's
Ordering Part Number (OPN). The OPN is located on the top of the processor.
Example: A X1800 D M S 3 C
The temperature is indicated by the third character from the right in the OPN and is denoted by
an S, T or V character. Current data for the AMD AthlonTM XP processor identifies the maximum
operating temperature as: V=85ºC, T= 90ºC, S = 95ºC.

Well, everything is working fine since I sorted out the cooling. Thanks again for the help.