Issue after exporting. at DVinfo.net

Scott Nelson · October 28th, 2009, 05:32 PM

So I know this issue is stupid and I am sure it will be something easy.

I shot a promo for a Haunted House for a free donation for their website and I shot it in 24F on my XH-A1. After capturing it all (After some issues) and editing it all together, I ran into an issue. They used strobes in the house and the camera and Premiere both show them perfect. HOWEVER.... Once I exported it (Many different frame rates) it keeps getting these odd lines going across the frame horizontally. I am sure it is something stupid but does anyone have any ideas? I was looking to get it back to him this Friday so it is only a week turnaround.

Thanks!

Tripp Woelfel · October 28th, 2009, 06:05 PM

We need more information on your output settings. If you pick several different ones it will help us narrow the issue down. It could be a variety of things.

Scott Nelson · October 29th, 2009, 10:04 AM

Well, it was shot in 24F on my Canon XH-A1

Project settings are:

HDV 1080 p
Timebase, 23.976

Tried exporting as:
H.264
720p 24fps progressive de-interlaced
720p FPS same as source
720p 29.97 fps

None of which worked right.

Scott Nelson · October 29th, 2009, 06:29 PM

Anyone have any ideas? I wanted to get this delivered tomorrow...

Tripp Woelfel · October 29th, 2009, 07:32 PM

I was looking for specific output parameters, but since you're pressed for time I will pass on what I can glean.
- Don't deinterlace progressive footage. It's always bad.
- h.264 does some frame blending as part of its temporal encoding.

I think that h.264 could be the source of your problem. Try outputing using the "same as project" settings to Quicktime using the Animation or JPEG codecs and see if the problem still exists. Don't export the whole thing. Just a section that causes problems in your other renders. Both of those codecs do not encode temporally across frames. DV will work too for the same reason.

If the problem disappears in those renders then I'd suspect your output codec, h.264. Strobe flashes will all fall into a single frame. When it tries to blend that frame with another it could cause problems.

If the problem still exists, then I'm lost.

HTH

Scott Nelson · October 30th, 2009, 11:25 PM

Ok, Here is the issue, just as an example.

It is towards the end with the evil clown at electric chair... I still have some audio syncing to do, but it is just about at its final copy.

Give me a step by step of the settings you want me to try, I tried exporting as Mpeg-2, Windows media, Quicktime, and tried different codecs (Though I don't have many that I recognize.)

Thanks for your help Tripp!

Scott Nelson · November 2nd, 2009, 06:57 PM

No ideas Tripp?

Anyone else? Would love to finish color correcting and audio syncing and send it out..

Jon Geddes · November 4th, 2009, 08:44 AM

There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the video. I see what you are talking about, but it appears its just a result of playing back on a computer monitor (which sometimes doesn't accurately display rapidly flashing white and black).

What is the delivery format? If it's dvd, have you tried burning it and playing it on a tv?

Scott Nelson · November 4th, 2009, 11:36 PM

It was going to be put on a Flashdrive in 3 or 3 formats.

I keep thinking it my monitor eveytime I see it, but in Premiere when I play it back after rendering the work area I do not have this issue. Its not until I export it. That's when I see these lines appear.

Tripp Woelfel · November 5th, 2009, 07:16 AM

Scott... I think I might see what you are talking about but I don't think it is manifesting on my end the way it is on yours.

What I see doesn't really look like a problem. The quick flashes look like, well, quick flashes which I think is what you wanted. Without being able to look over your shoulder at your monitor it's very difficult to suss out the problem. I'm wondering, as others have said, that it's a monitor issue (not that there's any problem with your monitor) in how it displays those flashes.

Since it appears that you want to output for playback on computers or computer-type devices, conventional wisdom says that you want to output 720p to h.264 or high data rate Flash. You might have to resign yourself to the fact that transcoding to a highly compressed format will always have some deleterious effects. It's just the nature of the beast.

October 28th, 2009, 05:32 PM	#1
Scott Nelson Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bloomington, MN Posts: 167	Issue after exporting. So I know this issue is stupid and I am sure it will be something easy. I shot a promo for a Haunted House for a free donation for their website and I shot it in 24F on my XH-A1. After capturing it all (After some issues) and editing it all together, I ran into an issue. They used strobes in the house and the camera and Premiere both show them perfect. HOWEVER.... Once I exported it (Many different frame rates) it keeps getting these odd lines going across the frame horizontally. I am sure it is something stupid but does anyone have any ideas? I was looking to get it back to him this Friday so it is only a week turnaround. Thanks! __________________ Canon XH-A1, Rode NTG-2 DIGITAL NOIR PRODUCTIONS

October 29th, 2009, 10:04 AM	#3
Scott Nelson Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bloomington, MN Posts: 167	Well, it was shot in 24F on my Canon XH-A1 Project settings are: HDV 1080 p Timebase, 23.976 Tried exporting as: H.264 720p 24fps progressive de-interlaced 720p FPS same as source 720p 29.97 fps None of which worked right. __________________ Canon XH-A1, Rode NTG-2 DIGITAL NOIR PRODUCTIONS

October 29th, 2009, 06:29 PM	#4
Scott Nelson Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bloomington, MN Posts: 167	Anyone have any ideas? I wanted to get this delivered tomorrow... __________________ Canon XH-A1, Rode NTG-2 DIGITAL NOIR PRODUCTIONS

October 30th, 2009, 11:25 PM	#6
Scott Nelson Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bloomington, MN Posts: 167	Ok, Here is the issue, just as an example. strobe test on Vimeo It is towards the end with the evil clown at electric chair... I still have some audio syncing to do, but it is just about at its final copy. Give me a step by step of the settings you want me to try, I tried exporting as Mpeg-2, Windows media, Quicktime, and tried different codecs (Though I don't have many that I recognize.) Thanks for your help Tripp! __________________ Canon XH-A1, Rode NTG-2 DIGITAL NOIR PRODUCTIONS

November 2nd, 2009, 06:57 PM	#7
Scott Nelson Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bloomington, MN Posts: 167	No ideas Tripp? Anyone else? Would love to finish color correcting and audio syncing and send it out.. __________________ Canon XH-A1, Rode NTG-2 DIGITAL NOIR PRODUCTIONS

October 28th, 2009, 06:05 PM	#2
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	We need more information on your output settings. If you pick several different ones it will help us narrow the issue down. It could be a variety of things.

October 29th, 2009, 07:32 PM	#5
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	I was looking for specific output parameters, but since you're pressed for time I will pass on what I can glean. - Don't deinterlace progressive footage. It's always bad. - h.264 does some frame blending as part of its temporal encoding. I think that h.264 could be the source of your problem. Try outputing using the "same as project" settings to Quicktime using the Animation or JPEG codecs and see if the problem still exists. Don't export the whole thing. Just a section that causes problems in your other renders. Both of those codecs do not encode temporally across frames. DV will work too for the same reason. If the problem disappears in those renders then I'd suspect your output codec, h.264. Strobe flashes will all fall into a single frame. When it tries to blend that frame with another it could cause problems. If the problem still exists, then I'm lost. HTH

November 4th, 2009, 08:44 AM	#8
Jon Geddes Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Seal Beach, California Posts: 68	There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the video. I see what you are talking about, but it appears its just a result of playing back on a computer monitor (which sometimes doesn't accurately display rapidly flashing white and black). What is the delivery format? If it's dvd, have you tried burning it and playing it on a tv?

November 4th, 2009, 11:36 PM	#9
Scott Nelson Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bloomington, MN Posts: 167	It was going to be put on a Flashdrive in 3 or 3 formats. I keep thinking it my monitor eveytime I see it, but in Premiere when I play it back after rendering the work area I do not have this issue. Its not until I export it. That's when I see these lines appear. __________________ Canon XH-A1, Rode NTG-2 DIGITAL NOIR PRODUCTIONS

November 5th, 2009, 07:16 AM	#10
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Scott... I think I might see what you are talking about but I don't think it is manifesting on my end the way it is on yours. What I see doesn't really look like a problem. The quick flashes look like, well, quick flashes which I think is what you wanted. Without being able to look over your shoulder at your monitor it's very difficult to suss out the problem. I'm wondering, as others have said, that it's a monitor issue (not that there's any problem with your monitor) in how it displays those flashes. Since it appears that you want to output for playback on computers or computer-type devices, conventional wisdom says that you want to output 720p to h.264 or high data rate Flash. You might have to resign yourself to the fact that transcoding to a highly compressed format will always have some deleterious effects. It's just the nature of the beast.

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