New Mac Pro & Adobe CS6 (Not CC)

[Andy Wilkinson]

I currently edit on an early 2009, 8-Core 2.66Ghz Mac Pro, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 285 Mac graphics card and Adobe CS6 in Mountain Lion. I also have FCS 2 running on this machine but rarely need to use it now - it is so slow (just use it to open legacy projects for clients when they need minor updates).

I also have CS6 running on a, near enough, top-spec late 2013 retina MBP (same OSX version)

In the very near future (September) I am considering buying a new Mac Pro 6-core 3.5Ghz with Dual D700 GPUs and 512GB Flash drive, 16GB RAM (initially at least) along with the new G-Technology GSpeed Studio 4-Bay Thunderbolt2 Desktop RAID Array (mostly likely 12GB configuration).

This new Mac Pro would of course come with the very latest OSX - but I'm wondering if anyone has tried (and is successfully using) Adobe CS6 running on the new Mac Pro under at least the Mavericks OSX that it was launched under?

I'm really NOT keen on the CC monthly subscription model that Adobe seem wedded too...let's not go over that aspect again. I will also be installing FCPX etc. (I was mainly a FCS 2 user, FCP6.06 etc., before I jumped to CS5.5 several years ago). I also use Vegas on a Windows 7 box too - so I'm not worried about learning/using multiple NLEs.

1080p Corporate short-form from my Canon C100/Ninja Blade and Sony PMW-300 cams is what I edit.

It would be great to hear if someone actually has Adobe CS6 running well on the new Mac Pro - or indeed on any Mac with Mavericks - but if not that will just strengthen my resolve to go the FCPX route!

So has anyone got experience of this to share? Thanks in advance.

[Charles W. Hull]

I'm running CC on a new pro; no issues at all yet, it runs very smoothly. I would expect CS6 would run the same.

[Harm Millaard]

While CC supports hardware MPE with the AMD D700 video cards, CS6 does not. That simply means you will be tied to software MPE only with the new Mac Pro trashcan. Your current GTX 285 uses hardware MPE on your current system with CS6. So you may take a serious step back with the new Mac Pro, depending on your workflow.

[Charles W. Hull]

Good point Harm. Also as I understand Adobe doesn't yet support ray tracing in CC AE with the AMD cards, if that is an important feature for you.

[Andy Wilkinson]

Thank you both for your very useful inputs. Sounds like I'll have to bite the bullet and try CC (at least as an existing CS6 user I will get a discount for the first year).

Still pondering the 6-core versus 8-core thing (which adds a whopping £1,200 inc VAT to the price, all other things remaining the same). Not sure I can justify that but the recent barefeats shootout (16th May) was sure interesting.

[Kevin Monahan]

Originally Posted by Charles W. Hull

Good point Harm. Also as I understand Adobe doesn't yet support ray tracing in CC AE with the AMD cards, if that is an important feature for you.

Hi Charles,
To be more precise, ray-traced 3D compositions are supported, they just are not hardware accelerated for AMD GPUs. NVIDIA GPUs are required for hardware acceleration. It will never be supported for AMD GPUs.

Today, we are partnering with Cinema 4D instead of doing any more development on the ray-traced 3D renderer. We consider it an obsolete technology.

Andy, if you stick with CS6, you won't have the benefit of hardware acceleration for ray-traced 3D comps or Cinema 4D Lite with the new Mac Pro. Sorry.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Andy Wilkinson]

Thanks for chiming in Kevin. Understood!

[Harm Millaard]

Andy,

To put your idea of going from a 6-core to an 8-core CPU in another perspective, let me tell you my feelings about that.

I currently have a 6-core PC, over-clocked to 4.4 GHz. I have been wondering whether I would gain performance by exchanging the CPU for a 12-core Xeon, which is technically possible on my system.

The price for a 12-core E5-2697 v2 Xeon is an extreme € 3.500 over here.

Since these Xeon CPU's can not be over-clocked, I would double the number of cores, but at the same time reduce the clock speed to only 2.7 Ghz. If all the applications, AE, PR and all plug-ins were perfectly multi-threading (which they are not), I could expect a maximum performance gain of around 20 - 23% as far as the CPU is concerned.

You can easily guess why I forgot about that possibility. A marginal improvement for huge costs.

In your case the benefit of going from 6 to 8 cores with a new Mac Pro is offset by the everlasting cost of CC, Remember, you can never go back to CS6, because projects are not backward compatible. In addition, hardware MPE with AMD cards is nowhere as fast as with nVidia cards.

Just something to consider.

BTW, I'm still on CS6, since I won't rent software. That saved me around $ 1000 the first year alone and now $ 86 per month over here.

[Andy Wilkinson]

Thanks Harm - great info as always from you.

That's exactly why I am going to try FCPX (and perhaps other NLEs), at least until Adobe realise that the only real way forward is a hybrid model. I need a system where one can buy and guarantee future usage/ability to open and re-edit old projects. Sure, I understand that I would need to pay a (significant but reasonable) exit fee to retain use of Adobe CC software after leaving the rental phase (in lieu of not having paid a large cost up-front as with the older CS model).

I will never put all my eggs in the "Adobe basket" until they address a more flexible, hybrid approach like this - and I am sure I am not alone. We all know what happens to companies that don't listen to their customers!

Who knows how much CC will cost on 5 years - I can't risk my business on an unknown like that - there are enough other business unknowns to navigate around. However, by going certain routes I can guarantee certainty in some critical areas like NLE costs and longevity in their usefulness on a locked down workstation.

Re the 6-core versus 8-core thing I might just "go for it" as, if I am successful, I will be getting an EU business grant which will pay for 40% of the cost of this new Mac Pro. Wish me luck with that! Anyway, it should serve me well for the next 5 years with whatever NLE becomes my core tool.

[Kevin Monahan]

Hi Andy,

That's exactly why I am going to try FCPX (and perhaps other NLEs), at least until Adobe realise that the only real way forward is a hybrid model.

I understand how you feel, but all future development of our applications will be on Creative Cloud.

I need a system where one can buy and guarantee future usage/ability to open and re-edit old projects.

You can do that if you pay for one month. You can even use the trial version if you need to restore an old project in a pinch. I don't know what your business is like, but I was an editor for 20 years. I can't remember very many projects that I needed to open years or even months later (none actually come to mind). I think this is an irrational fear. However, if you have a business where you need to open archival projects, I can understand.

Sure, I understand that I would need to pay a (significant but reasonable) exit fee to retain use of Adobe CC software after leaving the rental phase (in lieu of not having paid a large cost up-front as with the older CS model).

There is no exit fee. You can pay for a one month's subscription. To cancel any time, it's $29.99 for each month. Not much for the rare case of restoring a project back from the dead. ;-)

I will never put all my eggs in the "Adobe basket" until they address a more flexible, hybrid approach like this - and I am sure I am not alone. We all know what happens to companies that don't listen to their customers!

As I said, we're putting all our efforts into Creative Cloud. If it's just not for you right now, I understand. FWIW, there are some great things coming to CC, I hope you might reconsider in the future.

Who knows how much CC will cost on 5 years - I can't risk my business on an unknown like that - there are enough other business unknowns to navigate around. However, by going certain routes I can guarantee certainty in some critical areas like NLE costs and longevity in their usefulness on a locked down workstation.

I think CC will remain competitively priced and a good value. We want people to keep using CC for all their creative efforts and that can never be priced too outrageously. As I said, CC will eventually become much more than just the apps you know and love, so I hope you keep an eye on what we're doing. With the new version, you can auto save a version of your project file to CC automatically, so that's the kind of path we're going down.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Brian David Melnyk]

I am looking at a new computer also, and the daunting ripple effects with all my programs and hardware.
The idea of being forced to rent my software for my proffessional studio irks me, and I will work very hard to avoid this, however inconvenient.
I like to own my own house. Why would I tolerate being forced to rent, squeezed completely out of ownership, and have my landlord always hold the keys?
Software neo-feudalism? No thanks.

[Byron Jones]

So, did I understand this correctly? If upgrading to the new Mac Pro, to take advantage of the dual GPUs you would need to go the CC route? I have been debating a hardware upgrade for months but I was hoping to go from 5.5 to CS6 on the software side. I also don't like the renting concept.

[Battle Vaughan]

From an economics standpoint, there is the famous price/demand curve. My guess is that Adobe (or any vendor of anything, as economic history shows) will raise their price until the falloff in volume reduces their maximum income --- graphically it is seen as the crossing of the price curve and the demand curve. At that point, whatever it is, prices will probably stabilize except for inflation. Or that's what I remember from my econ class. It was pretty boring.....:)

[Kevin Monahan]

Hi Byron,

Originally Posted by Byron Jones

So, did I understand this correctly? If upgrading to the new Mac Pro, to take advantage of the dual GPUs you would need to go the CC route?

With the new Mac Pro, yes. Dual GPU support is a recent update.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Andrew Gough]

Kevin,

Given that you have a lot of customers (Myself included) who own CS6 and I currently use CC on my MBP. The inability to share projects between two current and licences versions of the software is a joke. I understand not making CC compatible to CS5, but CS6, come on.

I actually like the monthly model as it keeps me totally up to date - forever, and that has value to me. But, I expect my plugins to work going forward, and I expect to use CS6 for at least the life of my current computer. Many of us small guys simply cannot afford to write off the cost of CS6 master suite, I need to get my use out of it. Making the two work together is not really a big problem for Adobe, and it should have been done in the initial release of CC...

If it is not possible, then I should be able to trade CS6 MS in against a CC subscription with a bunch of free months (read 12 minimum.)

Andrew