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Old July 13th, 2016, 03:35 PM   #1
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Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? in Premiere Pro?

I do and if it was there I would still use it. I did buy a ShuttleExpress but Still liked that wheel. Anyone else?
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Old April 12th, 2023, 10:37 AM   #2
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

I edited for 10 years with an actual video edit controller. I absolutely cannot edit on a computer screen. Is there anything out there that incorporates a video edit controller that is self contained and does not need to be hooked up to a computer?
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Old April 12th, 2023, 11:00 AM   #3
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

The days of doing some simple editing with a CMX controller or something like that are long gone. Good riddance. Today's editing platforms are literally 1000x more powerful and absolutely require a computer. Without a computer, how will you even be able to access the video files on your hard drives? Are you also nostalgic for the dark ages of tape-to-tape editing? :-)

is there some physical or mental reason why you are not able to learn new skills? If not, open yourself up to the possibilities, speed, and power, that all the modern NLEs provide. Resolve is even free.

And if you really prefer a dedicated controller rather than using a mouse and keyboard shortcuts, consider getting one of the Resolve controllers for $400 - $600. That might make your transition to the modern era of editing more comfortable.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...ciresolve/edit

You're going to have to order it online, though. You're not going to be able to get in your horse and buggy and ride down to the general store and barter for it with chickens. Time to get into the 21st century. :-)
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Old April 12th, 2023, 11:10 AM   #4
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

You are jumping to a lot of conclusions.

My preference would be to insert memory cards directly into the video edit controller and avoid the computer for basic editing projects. Editing basics never change.
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Old April 12th, 2023, 05:02 PM   #5
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

When you find that magical device, let us know so we can have a good laugh. Nobody else wants it. And that is a conclusion you can count on.
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Old April 12th, 2023, 09:48 PM   #6
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro Machi View Post
I edited for 10 years with an actual video edit controller. I absolutely cannot edit on a computer screen. Is there anything out there that incorporates a video edit controller that is self contained and does not need to be hooked up to a computer?
Look, I started with CMX, BVE 600, 9000 and 2000 series editors, so I hear you. But in truth, their main frame rack mount chassis were basic computer control units driving VTRs via their RS422 ports. VTRs being replaced by hard drives and SSDs in today's NLE world. Traditional editing or NLE editing you still need screens. So the process of editing really hasn't changed that much, just the tools.

Doug suggested trying one of BM's Davinci Resolve's edit controllers. Been there, done that, sold them. They try to emulate the ballistics of the old VTR edit controllers, but in reality they fail pretty miserably. With Resolve if you learn the top fifty keyboard controls you can edit so much faster that you can with any traditional hardware controller. I know, I spent many years editing multi-machine multi-cam shows on everything from 1" machines to DigiBeta. Building EDLs and editing with automated checkerboard assembly and inserts. Over four hundred TV shows in total.

There is no way I would ever go back to the conventional Jog/Shuttle way of editing with hardware controllers. For example, if you really learn all the functions and the power and range of all the functions of just the JKL keys when using Resolve you have all the functions of plus many more than the old Jog/Shuttle ever offered. Like trimming on the fly. No having to mark in/mark out. So much more powerful and productive.

Yes, I have nostalgia for those days. I remember the good times. But I also remember having to ensure color framing was maintained on each edit. I also remember the rogue runaway machines that took off running flat out when they decided not to respond to the edit controller. I also remember having to set up in/out GPI triggers to fire the CG or Qantel Paintbox graphics. Setting up upstream and downstream keyers on the vision mixer, etc. All that plus more can now be done from the keyboard in Resolve in a much faster and more efficient manner. And all this with much more reliability and far less equipment maintenance than was required with the old way of editing.

Computer editing is the only way for me. Admittedly, I had some bad experiences with early NLE editing. The worst experience being with Panasonic's Postbox. It truly was a disaster.
Panasonic Postbox

But after moving to Media
https://www.media100.com/pages/downl...suite-for-free

and then
Discreet edit*
https://theditspot.com/2011/04/20/ed...discreet-edit/

And various other NLEs over the years, Edius, Premiere, Vegas, FCP, DPS I'm totally happy with Resolve and would never go back to the traditional editing controllers regardless of how they were configured with or without a computer.

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Old April 13th, 2023, 12:12 AM   #7
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

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Originally Posted by Christopher Young View Post
Look, I started with CMX, BVE 600, 9000 and 2000 series editors, so I hear you. But in truth, their main frame rack mount chassis were basic computer control units driving VTRs via their RS422 ports. VTRs being replaced by hard drives and SSDs in today's NLE world. Traditional editing or NLE editing you still need screens. So the process of editing really hasn't changed that much, just the tools.

Doug suggested trying one of BM's Davinci Resolve's edit controllers. Been there, done that, sold them. They try to emulate the ballistics of the old VTR edit controllers, but in reality they fail pretty miserably. With Resolve if you learn the top fifty keyboard controls you can edit so much faster that you can with any traditional hardware controller. I know, I spent many years editing multi-machine multi-cam shows on everything from 1" machines to DigiBeta. Building EDLs and editing with automated checkerboard assembly and inserts. Over four hundred TV shows in total.

There is no way I would ever go back to the conventional Jog/Shuttle way of editing with hardware controllers. For example, if you really learn all the functions and the power and range of all the functions of just the JKL keys when using Resolve you have all the functions of plus many more than the old Jog/Shuttle ever offered. Like trimming on the fly. No having to mark in/mark out. So much more powerful and productive.

Yes, I have nostalgia for those days. I remember the good times. But I also remember having to ensure color framing was maintained on each edit. I also remember the rogue runaway machines that took off running flat out when they decided not to respond to the edit controller. I also remember having to set up in/out GPI triggers to fire the CG or Qantel Paintbox graphics. Setting up upstream and downstream keyers on the vision mixer, etc. All that plus more can now be done from the keyboard in Resolve in a much faster and more efficient manner. And all this with much more reliability and far less equipment maintenance than was required with the old way of editing.

Computer editing is the only way for me. Admittedly, I had some bad experiences with early NLE editing. The worst experience being with Panasonic's Postbox. It truly was a disaster.
Panasonic Postbox

But after moving to Media
https://www.media100.com/pages/downl...suite-for-free

and then
Discreet edit*
https://theditspot.com/2011/04/20/ed...discreet-edit/

And various other NLEs over the years, Edius, Premiere, Vegas, FCP, DPS I'm totally happy with Resolve and would never go back to the traditional editing controllers regardless of how they were configured with or without a computer.

Chris Young
Trim on the fly? Not having to mark in and out?

We all have different methods of editing. You like where you at now. I liked what I did for 10 straight years that involved a video edit controller, and included winning a Los Angeles Emmy along with several other successes I am proud of. I think replacing all the video deck hardware and using memory cards as the "new video sources" is progressive. I just want to be able to control my media with actual knobs and a jog shuttle wheel. Not all video edit controllers were the same. I was able to incorporate certain editing techniques that were not available on every edit controller. I know I could do demo's that would result in thousands of units a year being sold, if the product existed.
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Old April 13th, 2023, 12:14 AM   #8
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Morgan View Post
Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? in Premiere Pro?

I do and if it was there I would still use it. I did buy a ShuttleExpress but Still liked that wheel. Anyone else?
In direct answer to your question. Yes, absolutely miss not having a video edit controller for the type of editing I enjoyed doing, and did very well. I would like to see a digital version in which memory cards are inserted directly into the video edit controller, an all in one editing unit.
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Last edited by Alessandro Machi; April 13th, 2023 at 09:03 PM.
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Old April 18th, 2023, 11:07 AM   #9
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

The jog shuttle feature is not just video of course, the same thing was really tactile on audio kit too. The problem comes in that editing is not just media manipulation in time though. A system with the tape type controls would be flumoxed by things like captions, on screen transitions, and of course effects - so a simple thing like a ripple edit, is simple. Same thing with the rolling edits. How would the editor display what it is doing? A computer screen! Seriously - can you not get a physical surface for a current editor you like? You would be able to do what you used to, but still use current facilities.

Would those audio editing gizmos work? The Pallette Gear products that you build up in modules?

Or maybe a stream deck - the one with rotary knobs? That could be set up to mimic the old controllers?
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Old April 18th, 2023, 12:28 PM   #10
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

When I used to edit, everything was in front of me. Waveform / Vector scope, Video edit controller, VU meters on all decks, Sound board and all settings, preview cut in and out, monitors (of course), Instant EQ bypass, instant comparison between no visual adjustment, or adjusted version, flexible pre-roll. I was able to view half a dozen processes with 2 seconds time, all during pre-roll and then during a preview edit.

I CAN'T STAND PULL DOWN MENUS.

A computer screen is not the same thing as having pull down menus that control everything. I want touch control of everything involved in my edit.

I totally get that this would be for simpler projects. It's possible I would take a "finished" project to someone who does post effects if the project warranted it. There are a ton of projects out there where people might want to hire an editor without realizing the most time consuming step is the consolidation of material so the editor can focus on editing rather than all the pre-edit responsibilities that can cost more than the actual edit time.
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Old April 23rd, 2023, 08:55 AM   #11
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

I'm not going to agree here, because the sheer ability of a computer system knocks what the cleverest 3 machine editor could ever do by miles. I understand you loved the old system of working, but it's long gone and I doubt any editor would want to go back. I'm not talking about time, I'm talking about being able to do everything needed efficiently. I can't imagine giving a project to somebody else any longer. Nothing is a problem any longer. Today I had 4 cameras, and audio recorder and a computer on the go. 5 cards which went into the machine. Premiere let me sync all the separate tracks, do the edit, with many sound tweaks, captions, zoomed and scaled stills, add just a single wipe with the rest plain cuts and get it done efficiently. It let me go back to an earlier version and redo the end without any hassle at all. Not one drop down menu was needed - EDIT actually there was one, where I needed to unlink the sound and picture so they could overlap to not cut off a word that the video edit point would have chopped.

I cannot imagine how hard this would have been in the 'good old days' of edit technology.
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Old April 23rd, 2023, 12:36 PM   #12
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

Interesting that the edit controller used in EVS for live sport etc tends to be more retro and I hear them using old jargon too for marking ins and outs.

Always amazed at the technology though as they can compile edit lists and change them as the machine is playing back on-air and the controllers looks very clunky but I am sure the very skilled editors and operators get used to the functionality.

I have a contour pro two and whilst it was good for some edit control I tend to use the mouse or even better a track pad or ball these days.

The AMS Neve Audiofile had the best audio scrub and reel rock many years ago but I suppose it is far easier to edit with waveforms these days.
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Old April 27th, 2023, 11:06 PM   #13
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

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I'm not going to agree here, because the sheer ability of a computer system knocks what the cleverest 3 machine editor could ever do by miles. I understand you loved the old system of working, but it's long gone and I doubt any editor would want to go back. I'm not talking about time, I'm talking about being able to do everything needed efficiently. I can't imagine giving a project to somebody else any longer. Nothing is a problem any longer. Today I had 4 cameras, and audio recorder and a computer on the go. 5 cards which went into the machine. Premiere let me sync all the separate tracks, do the edit, with many sound tweaks, captions, zoomed and scaled stills, add just a single wipe with the rest plain cuts and get it done efficiently. It let me go back to an earlier version and redo the end without any hassle at all. Not one drop down menu was needed - EDIT actually there was one, where I needed to unlink the sound and picture so they could overlap to not cut off a word that the video edit point would have chopped.

I cannot imagine how hard this would have been in the 'good old days' of edit technology.
I might have been the first one to figure out how to do a multiple camera edit on the fly using video edit machines back in the 90's. I created a 3 quarter screen copy of my 3 sources locked together with time-code window burn. It was simple to do, just lock them together and make a vhs copy. Then I took that 3 source vhs video copy and played it about 1 second ahead of the same 3 machines all locked together. I basically had a one second forewarning of when to cut out of a shot and what shot to cut into. I was able to cut live event shows in almost real time.

However, there are many projects where simple editing is all that is needed. Those are the projects I want to work on. Still not sure why you would "reject" someone with 50 hours of material coming to you with the material cut down to one or two hours so you could avoid the step of consolidating 50 hours of material and making cut downs.

I can recall naive clients coming to me with 20 vhs tapes and wanting me to review each tape with them and figure out how to put them together, and only be charged for actual edit time. I shut that down pretty quickly.

You explained how well you can edit a live camera with multiple camera sources as if that is the only kind of editing there is. There are so many types of editing projects out there and some of them work just fine with basic editing in which pacing and a good audio mix are what is primarily needed.
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Old April 28th, 2023, 03:06 PM   #14
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Old April 29th, 2023, 12:41 AM   #15
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Re: Anyone still miss the jog shuttle control? - Premiere Pro

I used that example as exactly that, an example. Editing needs change of course and straight complication is fine. Iím just looking at all the edits Iím doing each week. I just canít do any of them without a computer. Creating lower thirds, adjusting their length to match the edit points, trimming a few seconds here, tidying an edit with the audio there. Cropping, panning, zooming, adding data panels, and shifting the image to crest space, aligning multiple audio. Even simple stuff like slapping cross fades on audio tracks and dissolves on video. Not clever stuff at all, but itís perfectly fine to edit manually, if you can find equipment to let you do it. Itís a choice you prefer, thatís fine. Just not sure what you want is possible now?
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