Song suggestion
 

I'm looking for an instrumental song to use for a personal project. I'm looking for a song that starts slow tempo and gradually builds up to a climax.

Anyone have any suggestions?

boy that's so wide open.. try stock20.com ...

Pump Audio
Royalty Free music
Stock music


Bob

The great part about picking music for your project is just that.

I know
 

I know I have dozens of songs like that, but I can recall them for the life of me. I'll figure something out. I know there's lots of experience here, so I figure I'll give it a shot.

Paridgm Shift - Really!
 

Hi Jason,

Indeed, scoring the music is one of those pleasant areas where our true creativity emerges - assuming we have time! In fact, I believe having a well-organized, easy to access music library is paramount to generating your best music score. And when I purchase music, I spend a considerable amount of time organizing, categorizing, and tagging music that's both easily accessible AND PORTABLE.

Yes, I have thousands of songs on my iPod - when I'm on a project with time to kill (driving, waiting in lines, etc), I'll be poking through my MP3 player by various criteria (artist, albumn, publisher, genre, my personal rating, playlists, etc). And while I may be looking for music in a certain scene, I may find extra dividends scoring a song for another scene that I didn't realize would help the film (such as music for the credits, etc).

In fact, some script-writers will actually start with a powerful song and then write a scene around the song - that makes a lot of sense if you are lucky enough to have the opportunity to do so. Unfortunately, too many would-be videographers pick great songs that are inappropriate for the video/script/scene - I've seen way too many wedding/event videos that suffer this plight.

Sorry for rambling but hope this stimulates a new approach to an old problem.

Warm Regards, Michael

Jacob & Michael

You both do realize, do you not, that any particular songs anyone here could recommend to you by name, album, and artist, and/or that is commercially released music that you are likely to have downloaded and stored on your iPod for personal listening, would almost certainly be copyrighted by the publisher and record label and so would be completely illegal to use in your projects unless you've obtained the required sync licenses and paid whatever fees the copyright owners require for their use? If you're doing it as an exercise for yourself, just for the editing practice and will never show it to anyone, fine. But if you actually plan to DO anything with the end results, you'll need to look for music in libraries you can afford to license and can legally use.

2nd vote for http://www.pumpaudio.com/. They have almost all genres. It is easy to preview the entire song without the annoying blurb every 5 seconds to protect the song from being copied. Price is usually around $50.00.

Steve, good point but it doesn't really matter for something here ya? Any project with distribution, sure, but small shit goes under their radar.

Besides, there are plenty of songs in public domain.

I disagree - even if a song is public domain it's highly unlikely that a particular recording of it will be. Even "Happy Birthday" is still under copyright and nets Time Warner almost $2 million in revenues each year. About the only recording you can get that are public domain would be original Edison cylinders from before about 1900 and even that is iffy. As for being under the radar, ask the woman who posted the home video of her baby dancing to a Prince song playing in the background to YouTube just a few months ago. Something you'll show privately to friends or a homework assignment in an editing class in film school would go under the radar in all likelyhood but much beyond that and you're on thin ice.

Well, technically, even if it is for a personal project, if you use someone else's intellectual property without their consent, it's called stealing.

Does it happen? Sure. If they took all of the stolen intellectual property off YouTube there would only be 1/10 the stuff that's up there now. Just because it's on YouTube doesn't make it right; legally or morally.

The "I'm not making any money from this" plea doesn't prevail. You're using someone else's intellectual property, period.

We give China a lot of crap for human rights violations, and from what we hear from the "media" they deserve it. However, we turn a blind eye and ear to our own lesser trespasses.

If you liked it enough to use it in your video, it's worth something. It has value. If you don't cop to that, you're deluding yourself.

Put the shoe on the other foot. You're watching some channel and BOOM there's a bunch of your audio, video, art, writing -- whatever -- being used by someone else without your consent, without any credits and without compensation.

If your response is, "Oh, that's cool." Then you just graduated from art school and you're living off of mommy and daddy's money or your own trust fund. Keep thinking like that and you're toast.

In this situation, Jacob, you haven't given us anywhere near enough to go on; no music genre, no intstrument preference, nothing that would allow us to help you. Please provide more detail; a LOT more. Maybe you haven't thought it out yet. Think it out. Maybe you know some musicians who have original compostions already recorded. Maybe they could make something up for you. Be preapred to pay them something; pizza, subs, back massage, even real money. If you appreciate them, they'll do a much better job and that will improve your project.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Agree
 

Ty. thanks for that. (seriously)

people need to hear that more form the Pros. I used to argue this point with my interns in that past when they would show up to the studio with a new song they just downloaded, and I would have to explain that they just stolen some other artists work. they come back at me with the typical "everyone is doing it", "Im not re-selling it" and all those typical responses, but then I explained how professionals get paid after they put the work out (royalties), and in my case (music business) how its effecting budgets for work (people make less), and so forth.

So again.

Thanks for re-enforcing this commonly ignored facet of entertainment business.

Hi Steve,

You seem to have made an assumption that just because I have content on my iPod, it would be illegal to use it for production purposes. Let me make myself clear - I am referring to the thousands of ROYALTY FREE songs I've legitimately purchased from companies like Royalty Free Music, Sound Ideas, Elite Video, Stock20 and numerous others. In fact, on the second post Dave clearly stated looking at Stock20 - that was the context of my follow-up posting.

If you are not aware of T&Cs associated with royalty free songs and special effects, here's a high-level explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royalty_free_music

MP3 devices like an iPod allow us to import royalty free music from downloaded files or CDs. I can assure you this complies with the contract terms associated with our purchases.

Okay, hopefully we can get this thread back on track to help Dave - I suggest opening a new thread to discuss copyright infringements.

Warm Regards, Michael

I was indeed assuming you had your iPod loaded with regular commercial music such as iTunes downloads or music ripped from regular 'record store' CDs. My apologies and please forgive the error since you say that's not true. But our original poster, Jacob, was asking for song suggestions by name which usually implies he'd be looking for normal commercially released music from the general consumer market.

Yes, this is for practice only. If I were to use this for a "professional" project, I'd go about it the legal way.

I'm a musical idiot. I know what I want, but am having trouble finding it. The idea of having an ipod full of scores is a great idea. I have thousands of songs to sort through, but most have vocals. I don't really want that.

I'm still teaching myself a lot about the legalities. I know that I can't use pretty much anything popular. Nevermind the pub it gets for the artist. One day that process will be simplified for small time "videographers" like myself, but right now it's not even worth the time or money to expose a popular or even less know artist to a potential new customer. It's more the superstar musicians loss than mine. I've got plenty of copyright-free music that I can use legally to get the feeling I want to potray to my client. But as I've seen on this board before, the whole music use issue is a major sticking point.

Inspiration police
 

Yep. I'm looking for ideas and some inspiration too.

I'm guessing that one day the music industry will also try to prosecute folks for being inspired by copyright protected work as well.

- "What inspired you to raise funds to feed the homeless in your town?"
- "Well, this song by U2 really......."
- "Did you get permission from U2 to be inspired?"
- "What? No, I....."
- "You're going to be prosecuted for being inspired by a song without persmission from the song writer."
- "That stinks."

It's not by chance that so many small, indy musicians are popluar today. I listen to more local musicians now than anything else. I've used their music and all I had to do was send them an email for permission, but don't tell Lars that.

More info.
 

You're right, Ty, I didn't give enough info and meant to edit that, but got caught up. I know youtube is the devil, but there's a nike commerical that kind of has what I'm trying to find. Google "nike warriors commercial" and see what comes up. The music used is "Migration" by Cop Shoot Cop.
http://www.amazon.com/Ask-Questions-.../dp/B000001Y5N

That particular song is a bit too "industrial" for me. I'm looking for something that builds suspense and I'm teaching myself what I need to say as for instruments and the like.

Thanks for the help and I'm looking now as well. I realize this board is much, much more qualified than I am and I'm over my head here, but I can usually find help amongst the pros and I appreciate it.

And understand that the comments on legalities were not intended to be critical of you or in any way meant to be construed as to be a personal attack. Your asking a perfectly legitimate question in a venue such as this suggests you aspire to professionalism yourself and understanding what is and what isn't permissable usage is the sort of thing that is part and parcel of working in the industry.

You said: "It's more the superstar musicians loss than mine. I've got plenty of copyright-free music that I can use legally to get the feeling I want to potray to my client."

"Their loss", um dude, you make me chuckle. You may not remember that Bill Gates paid the Rolling Stones a reported $8 million for the license to use "Start Me Up" for the debut of Windows 95. Smell the coffee?

Harry Fox makes it about as easy as it gets and you can do it online. Chedeck it out for yourself.

Regards,

TyFord

Rehi Jason,

Right - since royalty free vocals are pricey, I prefer to shop-n-buy them on an "as needed" basis. Here's a good site for vocals:

http://www.triplescoopmusic.com/

Anyway, for both vocals and instrumentals you'll probably begin your index search by the category genre. However, in time you'll want to develop secondary categories - aka "playlists". You're only limited by your imagination on how many playlists to develop - you could certainly have a playlist that "Begin slow, building to climax" among dozens of others. But for me, unless I have a favorite first-pick albumn (like Sound-Ideas "Drama Film Score Music"), I'll usually begin looking by genre.

On that topic, you'll find the holiday price of $79 for this CD is terrific price and indeed includes music in the "Begin slow, building to climax" category.

http://www.sound-ideas.com/drama-film-music.html

But you may not be looking for a genre like drama. Get the idea? We often begin with genre, then drill down...

Until you get your music inventory built up on your PC, MP3 player, etc, you'll find many of the online sites have drill-down indexes to help find your jewel. Some of these royalty free companies even provide a CD with catalog software to help you locate that special song. Unfortunately, since each company has their own approach, you'll still want to maintain your index categories and playlists. And as I mentioned, for me I like to keep thousands on my iPod so my creative juices can percolate while I'm untethered - it sure beats listening to commercials on the car radio.

BTW, if you're a glutton for punishment, check out my music scores on the upcoming DV#11 challenge here.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=100

Next week the contestant's videos on LIGHT will be shown - mine will be "Crystal Clear".

Finally, Jason I'm sorry to see your thread continues to get drowned out by copyright issues but I'll keep trying. I guess this is one of those emotional feel-good judgmental areas that bring 'em out of the woodwork.

Happy trails, Michael

In addition to the excellent points that Steve and Ty are making, please note that there is technically no such thing as "copyright-free" music. U.S. law more or less states that a work is copyrighted automatically upon its creation. This means that if your 6-year-old neighbor Jimmy makes up a little tune on his kazoo, records it, and you later use his recording in a video, then you are violating little Jimmy's copyright. Granted, little Jimmy might be very unlikely to sue you, but he would certainly have a pretty air-tight case if he decided to do so. In the end, the decision to use copyrighted music without permission must be made with the risk in mind. If you personally find the risk acceptable and have no moral problem with it, then have at it. However, be warned that the risk is bigger than you might imagine, and that the recording industry will in fact sue "the little guy" without hesitation, if only to make an example out of him. It happens every day.

You say that there are a lot of local musicians from whom you are able to get permission easily, so do yourself a favor and forget the idea of using well-known popular music unless you are willing to follow the usual legal channels and pony up for the relevant licenses.

The above aside, Ty is quite right: it's probably more than a little silly of you to imagine that some personal project of yours has the potential to become a useful marketing tool for a nationally-known musician. I assure you that such musicians are not losing sleep because you aren't using their music without paying them for it.

Hi Jacob,

While scoring credits, I thought of you as I listened to a classical piece that certainly builds to a climax. Among other places, it's available at Royalty Free Music, album Greatest Classical Hits Volume #1, Track: Swan Lake Scene from Act 2 (2:57)

http://www.royaltyfreemusic.com/grea...its-vol-1.html

It's also here:

http://www.royaltyfreemusic.com/best...haikovsky.html

(and I have a slightly longer version titled "Scene Moderato" that's a variation of this well-known classic)

If suspense, drama, and intrigue to classical music meets your needs, you might also consider:

http://www.royaltyfreemusic.com/holl...uspense-1.html

Back to work. Michael

Simple business
 

The difference for guys like me compared to Bill Gates is that he's expecting $$ billions in sales, so it makes sense to pay big $$ for music rights. 99 times out of 100, using popular music would probably cost me triple my profit on a project, so I don't use it.

If I expected several thousand $$ in sales, I'd probably spend the money on the rights to popular music. It's simple business really.

So, yeah, it's their loss that there is not a process for videographers who like to use a popular song on the sale of 3 DVDs. Maybe my customer had never heard of the artist or the song and they still won't.

Thanks for the Harry Fox link. In the future, hopefully, I'll have a need to use the type of music that we're talking about.

Right
 

Yes, I'm not using the correct vocabulary. I'm talking about music that I've purchased and purchased certain usage rights. Canned music I guess.

I like these, "technically", replies. I'm an engineer by trade and I hear, "well, technically" all day long. Just when I think I've figured something out, "well, technically" slaps me in the back of the head and reminds me that I'm an idiot. Ha. What I really like about video and film work is that in order to be competent at it, you have to mesh technical ability with vision and art. I stink at art. And legal issues.

Again, thanks everyone for your help and guidance.

Thanks.
 

Yeah I know. It's like I walk into a room and ask about a song and get jumped by the copyright SWAT team. Funny, but I understand that folks bust their butts to entertain and would like proper compensation. I just want to try a technique out.

I've trolled the board for a while and from what I've seen in the past, I figured this would turn into a copyright discussion and considering that this board is for professionals, it's understandable.

Originally Posted by Michael Nistler
I'm sorry to see your thread continues to get drowned out by copyright issues but I'll keep trying. I guess this is one of those emotional feel-good judgmental areas that bring 'em out of the woodwork.

Michael,

You scofflaw. I am personally offended by your snide characterization; as if we were bugs. The issue is very UNemotional. Your attempt to position it otherwise is just plain wrong. It's just business and the copright laws.

Tsk, tsk,

Ty Ford

Thanks
 

That is funny. Thanks for the morning pick me up after an all-nighter of editing and administrative work.

To be honest, most of your posts have sounded emotional, if not very emotional. Then again, sometimes it's tough to figure how how a person's face is contorted when they type something. Emotion or lack there of is lost in message board banter.

But it did appear that I was confronted for something I am not going to do. I'm not even sure my original couple of posts were read correctly. This is for practice.

You said it was for a "personal project." That may mean it's for practice but it may also mean this is a project you're doing on your own for entry into festivals or to pitch for sale for broadcast, as opposed to bread and butter work such as weddings and events that you do for clients. No one tried to jump on your case or accuse you of anything but rather it was attempt to help you select music that both fit the mood of your work as well as keep you out of trouble for using it. I can only speak for myself, but anything I said was offered in the spirit of trying to help you bring off a successful project - and that includes being one that can be used after it's finished

Just pay me to compose and record something for you.

:-D

You're criteria for what you are after is a bit vague, if I could see the video I'd have a better idea. I might have something already done that you could have.

BTW I'm currently putting a little site together of pieces I've written with movies in mind. They will all be freely available for anyone to do with what they will. It should be up sometime early in the new year.

The reason for this? Well basically if someone uses my stuff (and hopefully likes it) then excellent. If they then want something specific or a bespoke piece writing, well, then I'll charge them for the privelage. Not a huge amount as I actually do a lot of this for fun strangely, but just to cover my time and, as odd as it seems, the pressure that then comes with producing a specific piece.