What mic for this situation

Lloyd Claycomb · February 8th, 2008, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

Adult in the middle on a sofa?. I was thinking of the kids side by side facing the storyteller, shoot in reverses so you have the adult in MCU cutting with reaction shots of the kids.

That's ONE option. I will post a picture link of the three different ones that we are thinking about.

1. Adult on the couch with one kid on same couch on either side--all looking toward cameras in front.
2. Adult on smaller lover chair with kids on rug in front FACING reader.
3. Adult on love chair, kids on either side with smaller chairs or bean bags at a 45-degree angle open to camera.

Lloyd Claycomb · February 8th, 2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

Adult in the middle on a sofa?. I was thinking of the kids side by side facing the storyteller, shoot in reverses so you have the adult in MCU cutting with reaction shots of the kids. Your line of action is drawn from the storytellers eyes to the kids eyes. Are you going to shoot in one take or try for multiple takes?

Multiple takes, I'm sure... One of the kids is 3, the other is 6... so getting it right on the first try is bound to be difficult.

So were you thinking then, since the kids would be shoulder to shoulder, ONE hyper for both?

Steve House · February 8th, 2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lloyd Claycomb

Very nice! Thanks for those links. That seems ideal. Running two cameras would get me 4 audio tracks, of which I only need 3. So I see this working great.

Steve, for this situation, if I were to go with your suggestions, what hypers would you recommend me buying? I think the best setup till now has been what you suggested--adult one lav, each kid with separate boomed hyper.

As to specific mic suggestions, that's hard to do because so much depends on your budget and how serious an investment you want to make. The range that is available starts with something like the Oktava M012 at about $225 and ranges up to the Schoeps CMC641 or Neumann KM150 at around $2000 each. None of the ones I think of off the top of my head have internal batteries so that factors in too. The AKG SE300/CK93 modular combo is a very good, modestly priced mic that can be had in the $400 range. I wouldn't want to use it on a fishpole boom but stationary on a mic stand with a horizontal boom arm, the Rode NT3 has a nice sound.

Quote:

Multiple takes, I'm sure... One of the kids is 3, the other is 6... so getting it right on the first try is bound to be difficult.

So were you thinking then, since the kids would be shoulder to shoulder, ONE hyper for both?

If they're seated beside each other a single hyper would probably cover them. Seated a couple of feet apart it would be another story. The critical dialog is going to be the storyteller.

Alfred Diaz · February 8th, 2008, 05:46 PM

I would deffinatley use the HV20 to capture sound as well as video. I had a similar situation where I shot a concert with my 3-chip XL2, and had the wide establishing shot done with a one-chip ZR65 (both Canon cameras).

Both provided great sound. Both recorded in 16bit. There was some tone difference. But the only complaint I had was that the video on the one-chip ZR-65 left a lot to be desire, but the sound was great.

You might even be able to get away with using the built-in mic on the HV20 for all your ambient noise. Test it out and see if you like the ambient sound that it records.

I understand being on a budget and not wanting to spend the money on a boom pole, or someone to operate it. Not to mention that sometimes you just want to do it by yourself, maybe with a little help from family.

All I can say is test it out. I think with the two tracks on the A1 and the single track (possibly dual track) on the HV20, you should have it covered.

One more note: really light it well. Your HV20 will really start to look a lot grainier than the A1 as the light gets lower. So keep it really bright. If you really wanted to get the two cameras to match better, you could try to descrease the light in your A1 with the ND filter and up the gain. All this will do is reduce the quality of your picture. But if you have too much of a noticible difference between the two cameras, you may have to do it. It's your choice.

Alfred

Lloyd Claycomb · February 8th, 2008, 06:55 PM

I have three conceptual layouts--numbered 1, 2, 3. Please keep in mind I did this in 15 mins with absolutely NO REGARD to aesthetic centering, cleaning, moving of things that won't be in the shots, exercise equipment, actual camera locations, lighting, furnishings, etc. etc. etc.... This is to simply provide a quick layout of the space and the conceptual positioning ideas for mics needed and their positioning.

The pics labeled "room dynamics" is just to get you an overall view of the room size and area to work with for equipment setup. Also, the wide-angle lens really distorts the true dimensions (20X18) , so please overlook that and all the above.

Here are the pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/5014000

Ira Ostrowski · February 8th, 2008, 07:18 PM

You might be able to use a studio mic such as the Rode NT2 which you can catch everyone with. You have to have the mic in a polar 8 pattern which catches all the voices around the mic. I'm sure you seen videos of people singing harmonies together in a circle around a microphone. Cardiod pattern only picks up the person in front of the mic.....it will pickup the others, but the hottest signal is in front of the mic. You would need a mic preamp to boost the mic's signal. So you would come from the mic into the mic pre and into the camera......or you could record into pro tools and then sync later. Since you record to disc you would have to record audio and video seperate and bring the audio into your video software. There has to be a way to get the audio from pro tools into premiere. There are plenty of mics out there for pretty reasonable and would sound fabulous for this type of application. You just have to make sure they have variable patterns. The Rode is around $400 I think and a decent mic pre you could get for $100-$500. You won't need a mic pre if you record into pro tools as it has mic pre's already. You might already know some of this information but I thought I would mention it if you didn't. I think using a mic in this situation would be extremely beneficial and would yield professional results. Keep in mind if you haven't used a mic like this before, that you will want to keep background noise to a minimum such as fans, washing machine, dogs barking etc. as it will pick up a lot of these sounds. Hope this helps. Peace.

Ira

Ira Ostrowski · February 9th, 2008, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Ostrowski

You might be able to use a studio mic such as the Rode NT2 which you can catch everyone with. You have to have the mic in a polar 8 pattern which catches all the voices around the mic. I'm sure you seen videos of people singing harmonies together in a circle around a microphone. Cardiod pattern only picks up the person in front of the mic.....it will pickup the others, but the hottest signal is in front of the mic. You would need a mic preamp to boost the mic's signal. So you would come from the mic into the mic pre and into the camera......or you could record into pro tools and then sync later. Since you record to disc you would have to record audio and video seperate and bring the audio into your video software. There has to be a way to get the audio from pro tools into premiere. There are plenty of mics out there for pretty reasonable and would sound fabulous for this type of application. You just have to make sure they have variable patterns. The Rode is around $400 I think and a decent mic pre you could get for $100-$500. You won't need a mic pre if you record into pro tools as it has mic pre's already. You might already know some of this information but I thought I would mention it if you didn't. I think using a mic in this situation would be extremely beneficial and would yield professional results. Keep in mind if you haven't used a mic like this before, that you will want to keep background noise to a minimum such as fans, washing machine, dogs barking etc. as it will pick up a lot of these sounds. Hope this helps. Peace.

Ira

Let me rephrase: The mic should be in omni mode which would pickup everything in a circular pattern.

February 8th, 2008, 06:55 PM	#35
Lloyd Claycomb Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Phoenix Posts: 208	Pictures of Layout I have three conceptual layouts--numbered 1, 2, 3. Please keep in mind I did this in 15 mins with absolutely NO REGARD to aesthetic centering, cleaning, moving of things that won't be in the shots, exercise equipment, actual camera locations, lighting, furnishings, etc. etc. etc.... This is to simply provide a quick layout of the space and the conceptual positioning ideas for mics needed and their positioning. The pics labeled "room dynamics" is just to get you an overall view of the room size and area to work with for equipment setup. Also, the wide-angle lens really distorts the true dimensions (20X18) , so please overlook that and all the above. Here are the pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/5014000

February 8th, 2008, 05:46 PM	#34
Alfred Diaz Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Washington State Posts: 88	I would deffinatley use the HV20 to capture sound as well as video. I had a similar situation where I shot a concert with my 3-chip XL2, and had the wide establishing shot done with a one-chip ZR65 (both Canon cameras). Both provided great sound. Both recorded in 16bit. There was some tone difference. But the only complaint I had was that the video on the one-chip ZR-65 left a lot to be desire, but the sound was great. You might even be able to get away with using the built-in mic on the HV20 for all your ambient noise. Test it out and see if you like the ambient sound that it records. I understand being on a budget and not wanting to spend the money on a boom pole, or someone to operate it. Not to mention that sometimes you just want to do it by yourself, maybe with a little help from family. All I can say is test it out. I think with the two tracks on the A1 and the single track (possibly dual track) on the HV20, you should have it covered. One more note: really light it well. Your HV20 will really start to look a lot grainier than the A1 as the light gets lower. So keep it really bright. If you really wanted to get the two cameras to match better, you could try to descrease the light in your A1 with the ND filter and up the gain. All this will do is reduce the quality of your picture. But if you have too much of a noticible difference between the two cameras, you may have to do it. It's your choice. Alfred

February 8th, 2008, 07:18 PM	#36
Ira Ostrowski New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Edgewater MD USA Posts: 17	You might be able to use a studio mic such as the Rode NT2 which you can catch everyone with. You have to have the mic in a polar 8 pattern which catches all the voices around the mic. I'm sure you seen videos of people singing harmonies together in a circle around a microphone. Cardiod pattern only picks up the person in front of the mic.....it will pickup the others, but the hottest signal is in front of the mic. You would need a mic preamp to boost the mic's signal. So you would come from the mic into the mic pre and into the camera......or you could record into pro tools and then sync later. Since you record to disc you would have to record audio and video seperate and bring the audio into your video software. There has to be a way to get the audio from pro tools into premiere. There are plenty of mics out there for pretty reasonable and would sound fabulous for this type of application. You just have to make sure they have variable patterns. The Rode is around $400 I think and a decent mic pre you could get for $100-$500. You won't need a mic pre if you record into pro tools as it has mic pre's already. You might already know some of this information but I thought I would mention it if you didn't. I think using a mic in this situation would be extremely beneficial and would yield professional results. Keep in mind if you haven't used a mic like this before, that you will want to keep background noise to a minimum such as fans, washing machine, dogs barking etc. as it will pick up a lot of these sounds. Hope this helps. Peace. Ira