New Lavalier Article Goes Live!
 

Hi all:

It's finally live. 16 models of lavalier mics tested, 105 images, 83 sound samples.

Hope that this helps you choose the best lavalier for your needs.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/lavs_brockett.html

Dan

Dear Dan,

I wish to thank you for another very nice, in-depth review.

I am certain that many will be referring to your reviews for a long time.

You are welcome Dan. I am writing the articles that I wish I could have found back in the pre-Internet days when I started in the business. There is a lot of content on the web, some good and some not so good.

I hope that content like this is valuable to those who live in the boonies where there are no audio retailers.

Glad you enjoy the articles.

Best,

Dan

I've been anxiously awaiting your article and it did not disapppoint. Thanks once again for making the complex understandable. Excellent!

Thanks for the best lavalier reference I've ever seen. The audio examples are beyond expectations.

Dan, UR the MAN! That is an amazing and professonally done in every way (from layout to writing) piece of work. REALLY impressive. Thanks so much!

Thanks so much!
 

Hi all:

Thank you so much for the words of encouragement, they mean a lot to me.

I am writing a new column that will debut in the next issue of HD Video Pro Magazine called, "Audio Assist". The idea is to answer universal location sound questions that all of you ask so if you want to see your question answered in a national magazine, ask away. Some months may highlight a working pro, but most months will answer audio issues and how to best solve them.

The upcoming issue features interviews and content with George Simpson, Supervising Sound Editor at Technicolor Sound and Michael Olman, a Sound Re-Recording Mixer for shows like "24", "Desperate Housewives" and "Battlestar Galactica". It was interesting, in interviewing the top audio post people in the business, I asked them, "what is the one thing that producers can do to improve the quality of the finished audio for their projects". Universally, the response was, "hire an experienced, skilled and patient location sound mixer" Turns out that all of the "fix it in post" stuff that gets tossed around, it's BS. Fixing it in post is not cost efficient and you end with a sub standard audio mix anyway in most cases in comparison to shooting it right, with a pro behind the mic.

All my best,

Dan

Fantastic job once again!

I was very impressed with how the AT899 sounded. It was in my top 3 for each test you did.

I can't wait for the next installment (field mixer, or wireless perhaps). I just wish someone would do this type of test for HDV and sub $7,000 video cameras.

Cheers,
JA

An amazing article! I can't imagine how long it must have taken you to put it together. I'm sure people will be referring to it for years to come. Thank you so much!

Hi Jason:

Yes, the Audio-Technica wasn't bad at all. AT shipped me another one to test with the 1800 wireless system. Glad you found the article helpful.

The next article is a "How To Rig A Lav" article, then wireless, then field mixers, you nailed it as far as what the next subjects will be.

Dan

Hi Jim:

My problem is that I just write the articles as a sideline, I am a full time producer/DP so I can only work on these articles when I have down time. Honestly the hardest part isn't the testing or writing or photography, those are fun, its the obtaining the review samples from the manufacturers. I need to get an assistant for these things that can just make the calls, tell the same pitch over and over and handle all of the shipping, paperwork.

Glad you liked it.

Thanks,

Dan

a really nice job, but I really wish the files weren't zipped. in a really great review which I am sure took a lot of time and effort, the zip files are a real downer. an MP3 file is already compressed, so you can't really losslessly compress compressed data again. the zip files are all 4kb smaller then the originals pretty much saying the only thing being compressed is either the file header, or some padding on the end of file. given the average file size of 500kb, this is a less then 1% savings in space / bandwidth, but a HUGE pain for anyone who want to click thru and check the various samples. please consider how much energy will be used to decompress these files, how much human time will be used and reconsider if saving less then 1% is worth the costs to the endusers.

maybe posting a complete zip file of everything on YouSendIt or another free FTP server would be an option to save bandwidth on your server.

Excellent, can't wait.

Not to hijack this post, but what are your thoughts on the AT 1800 wireless say versus the Sennheiser Evolution? I need to pick up 2 units, and these two seem to be the best for my budget. I was going to use the Tram 50, but now I may go with the AT899.

Thanks,
JA

Dan,

Congrats!

I know that represents a LOT of work. (unpaid work at that) and I also know that your efforts will benefit a lot of us.

So thanks for your time.

Hey, you're not breaking down and going to NAB this year are you?

If you do, I'll be glad to pick up your bar tab one night as a small token of "thanks" on behalf of the DV audio community. (Chris H probably would kick in as well, but most of us here know all his annual extra cash goes into his industry-leading SwagPen program and gratuities at a certain local LV coffeeshop.)

Hi Steve:

These are all Ken Stone issues. I supply the files as .MP3s, then Ken lays out the article, loads the files and zips them. The MP3 files are compressed to a 128kbps data rate, which sounds decent to me. I will forward your concerns on to him but I believe that there were some bandwidth issues that we ran into on the last shotgun article. We did discuss putting all of the files into a single download but I think with the tens of thousands of hits that the article has received, there were cost issues.

When the last article debuted, I received e-mails and posts that echoed some of the same concerns as you are expressing here, but nobody was willing to supply extra bandwidth and download quota. Since Ken's site has no advertising or sponsors and is financed by Ken, he has to make the decisions on how to supply his service.

I know that in comparing the uncompressed .AIFFs I recorded to the .MP3s I converted, I was pleasantly surprised at how well the .MP3s retained the qualities that differentiate the mics but yes, they don't sound as good as the .AIFFs. As far as the zipping concern, I don't know enough about the process to know where and how the zipping could effect the sound quality.

Thanks for the feedback.

Dan

More people seem to recommend the G2s but I own the AT U100s. Other than them sucking down a lot of 9V batteries, I really like the U100s so I am sure that the 1800 will fare well in testing. I have never used the Sennheisers so I can't really make a fair comparison yet, until I have a chance to test. I did try out the 1800 setup that Audio-Technica supplied to me and it sounds pretty good.

As far as the mics, both of those sound good, I think it would come down to personal preference. They do sound different. Listen to the samples and go for the one that sounds better than you.

Best,

Dan

Hi Bill:

Glad you liked the article, it was fun one to do.

No, a bunch of people have asked me to go but I am pretty busy with work these days so I won't be seeing you there.

Have a good time and report back on what was worth seeing.

Best,

Dan

Thank you Dan! Excellent as before!

I have read the handling noise sections on all the mics. It seems these were the mics that have no noise:
DPA 4061 & 4071
ecm-88
Audio Technologies VT 500

Of these (or maybe one of the other mics), which would be the best for putting on a dancer in rehearsals, on a T-shirt. (Probably using a Lectrosonics SM transmitter.)

Which would be the best to mount on the outside (or inside) of a loose T-shirt giving the least problems with noise.

The main recording would be when the dancer was talking to the coach and trying out moves.

Thanks again!

Hi Jack:

Thanks for the kudos.

Any of the mics would work well in the situations you name, if rigged correctly. Just realize that the test I did was more about the cable noise. This is noise that is transmitted through the cable to the capsule, usually as a result of not rigging the mic properly.

What will be the most important to you when recording this scenario will be if the microphone is rigged correctly. Any of the mics you named will work great, what you need to counteract will be the fabric of the t-shirt rubbing on the screen of the microphone diaphragm itself. None of the mics I tested were resistant to cloth rubbing on the diaphragm screen, all mics will pick that rustling up.

Out of the four mics you named, two of them have the diaphragms on the top of the capsule (the DPAs) and two have the diaphragms on the sides of the mic (EMC-88) or the face of the mic capsule (VT-500). I would make your buying decision based purely on sound quality and your budget, then figure out the best way to rig it for the least amount of noise.

Keep in mind that for Broadway dancers and performers, the hair mic is often preferred because the hair and face are rarely going to be moving and contorting as much as the body of a dancer. For a hair mic, the Countryman B6 is hard to beat but the others we talked about could be used as well, depending on the talent's hair color and style.

The next article I am writing for Ken will be how to rig lavaliers because it seems that few people besides location sound mixers know how to do it properly. Rigging a lav correctly is basic problem solving, it's not difficult but if it isn't done correctly, you will have sound issues. It also sometimes takes trial and error. Your situation could be challenging simply because the dancer will be contorting their body in ways that a sit down interview or narrative scene might not ever do so it may take some experimentation and testing to get your result that you want.

HTH

Dan

That was a good read, Dan. Many thanks for that extensive comparison.

-gb-

Nice work! About time, too, that someone finally did a shoot out of lapel mikes!

I'd be interested in seeing some thoughts on the Countryman B3 as well. It's nearly as tiny as the B6, from the specs has a little more dynamic range and about $100 less than it's super-tiny brother.

Any chance of including it in a future update?

Greg:

I am glad that you enjoyed it!

Dan

Hi Brian:

I am so glad that you found the article helpful.

Unfortunately, Countryman refused to loan me any samples of any mics to test or review so I used my own B6. In actuality, they really refused to even communicate to tell me, "no, we don't want to participate in the article." After about 10 un-returned e-mails and phone messages, I finally spoke with their marketing person and she was just not interested in speaking with me. When huge companies like Sony, Audio-Technica and Sennheiser are thrilled to participate, it has to make you wonder why a small company like Countryman wouldn't. We had great cooperation from a lot of the smaller companies as well like DPA, Sonotrim, PSC as well so I am stumped.

I doubt that I will ever test their mics because they were uncooperative and in my opinion, as someone who deals with a lot of audio companies, very unprofessional. These articles do expose their product in an objective and favorable light to tens of thousands of potential customers (I quote their marketing materials verbatim in a large part of the article) so that the readers can form their own opinion based upon what the manufacturer states, what I write as opinion and what the tests reveal.

Best,

Dan

thank you dan for the job you've done for us all. i suggest you guys at dvinfo to put this thread and the one about shotguns as sticky, the amount of infos in the two articles is just too large to let the threads desappear as time goes by.
dan, i can't wait to read your article about how to rig lavaliers. pictures and samples as well please!!!!

pietro

Thanks Dan!

Like quite a few other people by the sounds of it, I have been putting off making purchases until this came out, so it'll be put to use shortly.

One thing I feel might be missing, and that's that none of these mics as far as I know would have plugged directly in to your mixer- all would have used some kind of active or passive adaptor. I looked at the one for the DPA 4061, and to power from 48v requires spending an extra £70 (seems to be about $100) for the DPA DAD6001-BC. Was this factored in to the price you evaluated them at? I imagine all the other mics were in a similar position, though with the DPAs and their micro-dot connector, there can't be any wireless transmitters around that wouldn't require *another* connector to plug into them. At least getting a TR50 wired up to fit one of the wireless units would mean only needing one adaptor, for running wired, on 48v phantom. The DPA needs two, one for wired, one (at least) for wireless?

I appreciate you tried to ignore the price in terms of what you felt about their sound quality though.

Also, don't worry about zipping up the files altering the sound- it won't have. The zip file format is non-lossy, and the files we unzip are identical in every way to the files you/your web team zipped up.

Hi Pietro:

You are very welcome, sorry it took so long to get this article completed but it was a massive amount of work and since I really produce and DP for a living, these articles sometimes get stalled when I get busy with work.

Yes, I am hiring a couple of models and will have a sound mixer helping me out for the "How To Rig" article. There is nothing like it on the Internet that I have found, just a few paragraphs here and there and few snaps, but not much that is in-depth, provides step by step clear and simple instructions, nothing that tells you about all of the tricks about wig tape, topstick, mitten tips, etc. I have seen a few articles but nothing complete with good photography.

Now that I think about it, I am going to begin a new thread and I want to solicit challenging rigging scenarios from all of you, questions like, "how do I rig a lavalier for an exercise video?", "how would I mic a fight scene with dialogue in the middle of it?", stuff like that.

Enjoy!

Dan

Hi Phil:

All of the microphones in the article can be plugged directly into a mixer or camcorder as shown and as price quoted, or at least that is what I requested of the manufacturers.

Depending on which wireless system you use, yes, you might have to purchase a separate "MicroDot to TA-5F adapter" or whatever your wireless system uses (Hirose, TA-3, Mini DIN, 1/8") but I would think that would be pretty inexpensive.

With most of the different manufaturers, the way that each mic has to be ordered and specified is massively confusing, it seems that there is no standardized way to do it. Each manufacturer has their own way of specifying whether the mic is available hard wired, detachable, pig tail, etc. If you go to the Tram websites and the Sonotrim, there are pages and pages of ways that the mic can be ordered and yes, all of the prices are different.

The one I need to clarify with the manufacturer is the PSC MilliMic, I am not sure if their list price they gave me included the detachable TA-5F power supply. But I believe that with all of the others, I specified them as XLR either detachable or hard wired, what is the list cost and wrote in the prices I was quoted.

If you are interested in the DPA mics, I would highly suggest contacting the distributor in the U.K. and having a chat. The amount of DPA accessories available and ways that their mics can be configured is mind blowing. They shipped me a box full of nothing but mic accessories and there were hundreds of them. If the prices that they quoted do not include the XLR MicroDot connector, than I need to note that in the article. I will contacting DPA to clarify that the MSRP they quoted me DOES include the XLR MicroDot. I was told that it did.

Best,

Dan

You need to re-evaluate
 

Hi Phil:

After conversation today with DPA, they verified that the prices I have posted in the article are for the microphone only. They sell their mounting kits (an ENG kit and a Film kit) and the MicroDot to XLR adapter separately. I have since updated the article with the new list prices that reflect this pricing structure.

Sorry for the confusion, I was confused too.

Best,

Dan

But in truth, DPA probably has the most sane way of attaching mics. You use their adapter for 48V or their adapter for whichever wireless transmitter you have. There is absolutely no guess work, an no sound shop cutting of wires, adding power supplies, re-wiring, etc..

I was told independently by Coffey Sound here in LA that the DPA cuts the best with a boom mic, but didn't really believe it. But now I am starting to ;).

BTW, one mic I WISH you included was the Sennheiser MKE Platinum. It is another workhorse in the "industry."

Thanks again.


And P.S., both your mic review threads have to be stickied.

Dan,

Thank you for you excellent write up. You've done a fantastic job! I'm sure this kind of thing will be very helpful to a lot of people.

I was however looking for a wireless solution. I find a lot of the information I find on the ne tto do with this stuff quite confusing in as far as what works with what etc.

I've got the AT899 and Iwant to be buy a wireless solution. On A-T's website it seems you have to buy the mic as well. I need to buy this in a day or two (need the stuff next week) otherwise I would have waited till your next articles :)

So my question is, do you have a reccomendation for me?

For all of my mics, I simply tell them what wireless it is going to be attached to, then what I get is just the mic wired ready to go. When I ordered my DPA 4063, DPA did the actual wiring, not Coffey for the Zaxcom TRX-900. There was sort of a big ordeal on that, but that was related to how Zaxcom setup the initial 900 units, and I had one of the early units. Eventually, I ended up shipping the Sanken COS-11 and DPA 4063 along with the unit back to Zaxcom so they could figure out why one worked (Sanken) and one didn't even though both were wired to spec. It turned out to be TRX900.

Anyhow I bring this up only because if you're going to use the lav with wireless equipment, it's much more convenient to have the lav setup for the equipment you are going to use rather than have extra parts that also have to get connected (or worse lost). The only down side to this is if you change equipment you might have to get the lav rewired.

Wayne

Wayne,

Why did DPA have to do any wiring at all? They make a TRX-900 adapter #DAD3057 that fits onto the microdot connection.

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/

Click on any of the adapter lines and a detialed description comes up.

BTW, with the COS-11, Coffey seems to recommend buying the wired version and having them clip it to add a connector for whichever wireless unit you'll be using. But Location Sound seems to prefer selling the COS-11 with a TA5 connector (for Lectrosonics) and an Ambient power supply, and if need be a TA5 to locking mini adapter for Senn's G2. I like the Location solution better (and Coffey will certainly do it if asked) because the Ambient power supply is smaller than the wired Sanken one, and the wired Sanken only comes in black while the TA5 version comes in other colors.

What I like about DPA is they eliminate all the wiring guess work. You get a lav with a microdot connection, and then you just pick out which DPA adapters you need.

P.S. The second to last paragraph refers to wanting the option to use the lav with both a wirelss unit or phantom power.

This wasn't available when I got my 4063 and TRX-900, and there was some discussions between DPA and Zaxcom about how things should be wired which I suspect delayed thing. Also, I'm not sure I would have wanted to use the adapter.

It's all just various schools of thought. In my mind, I don't want adapters which can (and will) get lost on set, I would prefer things to be hardwired. This of course does have drawbacks. If something happens to one of my Sanken mics wired for my Lectro units, then I can swap out mics because I have multiple 411 systems and mics wired for them. But, if something happens to the Sanken mic wired for the TRX900, I have to switch and use the DPA. I try not to use the DPA since it does sound different than the Sanken mics. I couldn't easily swap on out the mics from a Lectro unit.

So, there are advantages to the adapters especially when you are going to use the mic on multiple units or in multiple configurations.

Wayne

Hi Shiv:

For low end wireless, it seems that the Sennheiser G2 systems and the Audio-Technica 1800 systems are the most recommended. I will be testing both, I already have the 1800 system here. I own the older Audio-Technica U100 systems and they have been very good for the money. Not quite as clear as the Lectrosonics but at a fraction of the cost too.

As far as I know, Audio-Technica only seems to sell the 1800 series on kits and they include their low cost lav in the kit price. Wouldn't hurt to have a back up capsule IMHO so I would consider the 1800 kit to go with your AT899.

Best,

Dan

Oh, boy, I can't wait for this one! You are so right about the lack of info on this subject.

Thanks so much for putting together these great articles. Fabulous work.

Hey Dan,

Thanks for the reply. I've been doing some (futile) research since reading your article. I've not slept all night!

So here what I think I'd like to buy:

A wireless set that:
1. Supports an xlr input on the transmitter side so I can use any XLR mic rather than be stuck with "theirs".
2. I need the receiver to be battery operated since I need to be in the field (literally) can won't have a wall socket.

I've found this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Diversity.html

This one sounds pretty good, but then I don't know :). AT has one as well but it needs 6 AA battries on the receiver side but more importantly, doesn't support an XLR mic on the transmitter side.

Now since My mic has an XLRM plug (I have the power box that comes with it that provides the 48v and converts to XLR) but I was wondering if:
1. There is an XMLM-XLR adapter.
2. IF there is, can I use it directly with the transmitter of this kit (WRT the 48v power).

So I'd appreciate you take on this as well as anyone else who might have already used this or similar model.

Thanks.

Shiv.

Dear Shiv,

The Sennheiser G1 and G2 support using a XLR mic as input to their transmitter. You only need to have the proper cable.

I am certain that this is probably the case with other manufacturer's units as well.

If your mic is phantom power only, then you will need the Sennheiser 500 series units, or a phantom power supply that goes between the mic and the transmitter.

In the case of the Tram TR-50, this seems to work without a battery in the Tram power supply, and without needing a phantom power supply, so it works with the Sennheiser 100 or 500 series equally well.

Hey Dan,

Thanks for your quick replies! I sure do appreciate it.

I'm look at this picture of the G2 kit
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/media/h...G-G2_hires.jpg

Can't find this at B&H but do on Amazon and I can have it here by the 11th.
http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-EW1...=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

So:
1. Is that what you're talking about?
2. I don't seem to get the parts in the image. From the (XLR) looks of it, it looks like there is one transmitter and two receivers?

What about the cable from the receiver to the camera? I have a Canon XHA1. The other kits (from A-T and Sony came with the cable from receiver to camera).

With the kit above I don't need to use my mic (I could if I wanted) but I will need a cable to go from the receiver to camera right? Or is the cable at bottom- center that cable?

I've got a phantom power box for my mic but I guess I'll need a very short XLR cable to go from that box to the transmitter. If I need to be able to use my mic (just in case).

Shiv.

Wayne, BTW, which mic are you finding cuts best with your 8040? I have a COS-11 as well and am thinking about getting another one or a DPA. I know you very kindly posted sound clips of me of all these mics. Just wondering which lav you've grown most fond of. (I remeber you saying that you mostly use the Sanken, but that might have changed ;).)

Dear Shiv,

The kit that you referred to, called an "ENG" model which includes two transmitters, one camera mountable and one plug-in model for another microphone. As long as you have only one receiver, you can only use one transmitter at a time. If you get a second recevier, then you can use both transmitters.

This kit includes a XLR output cable so that you can use your XLR inputs on your camera. Another cable is included if you do not have XLR inputs on your camera.

If you do not need two transmitters, you can purchase a more economical kit. Just be advised that the "ENG" kit is the most economical in the long run, if you will ever need the plug-on transmitter.

Please purchase from one of this site's sponsors. If you check, you will see that B&H's price is lower than Amazon. Just click on the "Email me a Better Price" button."

If you need to use an XLR mic for input to the transmitter, you will need another cable.