Boom pole + xlr cable suggestions.
 

Hi guys. Through reading all of the helpful comments you guys gave me, I have ordered a Schoeps cmc6 mk41 g, a sound devices mix pre and a Schoeps a20 shock mount. Now all I need to get up and rolling is a boom pole and some cable. (Digital recorder in a few months). Any suggestions? I just had a guy named Jasen at Trew Audio in Vancouver get pissed at me because I asked, very politely, what the professionals are using. He basically said I had a wierd attitude to purchasing gear and that I was an amateur. Whilst I readily agree that I am an amateur in regards to recording location audio, I could not believe his lack of professionalism. Anyway, I say that, because I am no closer to finding out what I should be looking at than I was before. I understand that a lot of it is personal preference, but as I live on the island, it is hard to get into Vancouver just to test out boom poles. Because I am using the Schoeps, I need a pole that will be good for indoor use. It should be maybe 8-12 feet long. Carbon Fiber. After that, I have no idea. Is there a model of boom pole that is a sort of industry-standard? I assume not, given just how angry the Trew guy got when I asked something of that ilk. Bottom line is: I cannot test before I buy in this instance. I can only go on the opinions of people more skilled than I...but I don't think that is a bad thing.

As for xlrs, I am wondering if there is an industry standard there too. Just anything that can give me top notch results if used well.

My price range is anywhere from $300, to $1000. I don't want to pay tons of money if I don't need to though.

Thanks to this board I can learn about the filmmaking process and ask questions without being verbally accosted for my lack of knowledge and experience. What a novel idea. I am so glad it exists.

One of the more popular brands among professionals is K-Tek, their model 152 is the length you're looking for. Another very well received brand is Loon and they too include a 12 foot model in their line. Lightwave has their "news pole" model that's 8 feet long and well suited for indoors use.

Booms are not something easily spec'ed and their choice tends to be highly personal. Most of the time intangibles like a companys reputation for customer service, quick repairs in the midst of a tight shooting schedule, etc, are as much of a deciding factor as any technical specs. There really is no such thing as an industry standard that's a clear-cut "choice of the pros." In a very real sense choosing a pole is like choosing the most comfortable pair of shoes to wear for your particular feet and style of working. Unlike selecting a mic, for instance, it's really not something you can choose by imitating "what the pros use" in a certain situation. It's more like selecting the best athletic shoe for a runner - there are a lot of differences in opinion and there's no clear distinction between the brands worn by the winners and those worn by the losers.

The length is detmined largely by the nature of the shoot. Newsgathering one's usually not so worried about the mic being visible in the frame but something that's manueverable indoors, perhaps in a crowd, becomes important. Documentaries are usually filmed in real locations rather than a tightly controlled set, but with some control over things that might interfere with the shot so more working distance is the norm, shots range from medium to cu, and a 12 or so footer works well. Features on a tightly controlled location and with longer subject to camera distances than found in a typical doco shoot would call for 16 to even 20 foot long poles.

I must say I am astounded at your experience at Trew in Vancouver. I've been in their Toronto shop many times, in fact am planning to drop in this afternoon if I have time, to price a pole as a matter of fact, and have never had anything but the most courteous and professional treatment from them. Had a chance to get to meet Glen Trew earlier this year, he was in town to meet with CBC yet took the time to chat and get acquainted.

Industry standard cables are Canare, Mogami, Belden. Connectors would be Neutrik or Switchcraft. A number of manufacturers such as Remote Audio make up their cables using, for instance, Canare cable and Neutrik connectors. Don't get fooled by claims from some "audiophile" vendors that exotic (read "expensive") cables are better - it's a crock of brown stuff aimed at people with more money than brains. Wire is wire and barring manufacturing defects, poor shielding, bad solder joints, or corrosion, the cable and connectors will have absolutely no effect on the sound whatsoever.

I don't think I'd go back to that shop in a hurry.

Working singlehanded a lot of the time I wanted something quick and easy to rig.
I went for a Lightwave folding carbon fibre pole with an internal cable. I'm sure that there are lots of other options but this works well.

I'm not an expert but that's my experience.

Well, I'm sorry to hear about you experience with Trew Audio as I know that the guys at both the Toronto store and Nashville locations are pretty awesome.

As for the little incident, I always find that there are some people with a sense of bitterness towards others with less experience. Of course, it's not limited to the sound or camera departments, but it occurs in other industries than film/video as well. What tends to happen is that new people in the field buy top of the line equipment and get jobs that some believe they shouldn't really be entitled to over perhaps someone with many years of experience. Kind of like, someone just out of college ending up being a department head when you've been trying to get that job working your butt off for 30 years.

Sound work can get very competitive so it is always an underlying issue isolated to a specific region (perhaps why the Interwebnet forums are so open). I believe when you asked what the pros used you may have rubbed the guy in the wrong way. You really have to be careful with what and how you ask questions from sound guys, because some of us can be pretty frickin' odd and stingy.

Although, I don't quite agree with that sort of attitude as mentioned, I have always been an advocate of getting hands-on experience on the equipment before you purchase. Just asking what the pros use, is not a very good rule to follow as you can potentially be blowing money on features that aren't really necessary.

I've just purchased a K-Tek 110CC (Internally wired) Avalon (aluminum) that I love and spec'd a K-Tec 110 Carbon Fibre at my former 9 - 5. I like these poles for MY application which is documentary video and not filmmaking. My audio guy likes the weight and the reach (even on the aluminum, the weight is quite manageable at 110") and I liked the cost effectiveness of the aluminum pole.

Again, everyone will have their own preference and budget. The K-Tek fit both of mine.

That's interesting that picking a pole is more akin to picking a pair of shoes. I didn't know that. I do always try to test before I buy...but given the fact that Vancouver Island is fairly, if not completely devoid of shops and rental houses for this type of gear, I don't have that luxury often.

I want a pole with extremely low handling noise, so a pole that is good at providing that would be preferable.

Regarding the Trew incident, it was very odd, as I have heard great things about them from people on this board and that definitely influenced my decision to call them. Whenever talking to "Professionals" I am always willing to listen to their advice, and usually appreciate their input. I also am not quick to disagree with them, because they are the ones that have the experience, and I let them know that, so it was very very out of the usual. Even if an employee has a beef with a customer, it should not over-ride their fundamental task; to make money for their employer. I guess they don't like to sell things at Trew, and the criterion for their selling something is based on how "Deserving" the client is. Haha. I can see how purchasing high quality gear when I currently have practically no experience in gathering location audio could make someone jealous, but honestly, why should anyone waste time with lower end gear if they can afford it? I find the attitudes of people like that to be strange. I guess they think that their lives are so much harder than everyone else's. There's just no dealing with some people I guess.

Sorry. Had to rant.

Give Trew another chance. They are nice folks. I'd suggest getting a pole that's at least 12 feet long. Heck. Get one that's 14 feet. Can't go wrong with K-Tek. I like internally cabled poles as well.

Yeah I'm really torn right now between two polls.

I can get the K-Tek 110 boompole for $216, but I'm comparing it against a lighter carbon fiber boompole from Gitzo (GB1540) that I can get for $199.

I'm not sure whether it's more important to have internally cabled boompoles, or a lighter carbon fiber boom. The weight difference isn't that significant and they both extend approx 9.1 feet.

I guess they're pretty comparable in quality either way.

Get a carbon fiber of course - lighter.
You will proberbly like them all. Which one is quieter? Which one would advertise that it's noisier??
You only get an opinion by trying so go for one and take a punt.
I would say most pro's would go carbon fiber and in U.K. Panamic is seen as the pole of choice. They don't do a super short pole though. there shortest closed is not so short. That might be an issue if you plan on hopping in and out of cars etc..
12 foot is long enough. Any longer and you might as well get a realy long 3 stage drama pole.
Get a pole that can be internally coiled but try it with the cable out side to start. Save the cash for other goodies.

The K-Tek Avalon is miles better than the Gitzo carbon fiber, which flexes way too much for me. I actually prefer the K-Tek aluminum better than the carbon fiber (in the 9 foot length anyway), because it's a little stiffer and the weight difference is negligible. I've used both a fair amount, and I wouldn't say that carbon fiber is much, if any quieter with respect to handling noise.

There's been some really great advice on this thread and it really reflects the breadth and depth of experience in this forum. Most of my work is verite doc stuff, so I like 8-9' internally-cabled carbon fiber boom poles, because they're light, quick to deploy and don't suck away all of your body heat when you're shooting in the cold. One potential downside of internal cables is that they can really rattle inside of the pole if your movements aren't smooth.

My current boom pole of choice is a medium PSC Elite--very smooth action and rigid but easy lockup. Definitely smoother and more rigid than my old K-Tek Avalon KE-100CC (K-Tek's "budget" carbon fiber pole) and probably comparable to the mainline K-102 unit. Another nice feature is that the bottom cap unscrews easily so that you can quickly straighten out or replace the internal cable if it becomes kinked or inoperable.

K-Tek's aluminum poles are just fine and very cost effective though. I've bought 15 internally-cabled ones for my university and they've stood up very well to student use and abuse other than a tendency for the cables to get kinked, which can prevent you from fully collapsing the pole.

Regarding XLR cables, just make sure that they're "Star-Quad" 4-conductor cables for less susceptibility to electrical and RF interference. Canare, Mogami and Belden are all fine, with Neutrik or Switchcraft connectors as mentioned by other posters. Any sound house can make you custom cables in your choice of length and colors if what you want isn't already hanging in their display. Since the original poster mentioned using a Sound Devices MixPre, don't forget to get an ENG breakaway cable as well. Having one makes for much easier coordination between the sound recordist and camera op and allows return monitoring from the camera's headphone jack. Keep in mind that many cameras' headphone jacks are pre-record, however.

Hope that helps,

Hoi

I had a similar experience with trew. Well, actually, the first guy i dealt with was awesome but then he left the company. After that I've felt like i'm at the guitar center. I guess they just get tired of answering the same questions over and over to noobs without money. Kinda like how Ty can get snarky with the daily "which $110 mic sounds better than a schoeps?" questions. hehe. I had started w/ the first guy building a relationship and planned on being loyal to the vendor, but after he left, i had to "start over" and in the end the "too busy for you peons" attitude of the other sales dudes drove me away from the speciality vendors entirely.

I guess I'm either expecting too much or not spending enough at one time. 3 years later I've bought over $10k in gear, but its been bits at a time. I'm sure if i waltzed in w/ 10k in my hand I'd be treated like a "pro". But in fairness, for every person like you or me that is serious about buying but uncertain about what, there is probably an army of those that bug the pro audio guys endlessly then end up ignoring all their advise and shopping elsewhere anyways.

So about your question, I bought the ktek 10' internally wired aluminum avalon. And, its "ok". The glue at each joint is lumpy and unsightly, and for one joint caused a "catch" when the pole was closed until i took a file to it. (pretty!). They were sold out of the side exit model so i bought a rear exit, thinking i could swap it out later... but the xlr on the pole is glued on. Having the internal wiring is cool, but the xlr dangling from the top takes a bit of care during transport and you absolutely need both hands and a leg or two to extend the pole fully, due to the internal coiled cable wanting to spring the pole shut again.

If I had to do it over, i'd absolutely get side exit (everybody that uses the pole tries setting it down on the ground on the xlr connector) and I'd put the money i spent on the internal cabling into a longer, lighter, probably carbon fibre pole.

Of course, until i have a longer CF pole w/o cables i cant *really* say if i'd like it better. I might find other things bug me more and make me prefer the aluminum rear exit 10' avalon.

Hmm. I could always call up Trew Audio and ask them which boom pole i would prefer. hehe.

-a

The weight difference on the K-Tek Avalon 110 versus the 110 Carbon fibre is 100g (about 1/4 pound). To me, that's nothing. As well, I PERSONALLY would never go with a pole that wasn't internally cabled. Too much cable management for my liking (but I am a bit of a klutz...)

Seeing as how no one else has mentioned them, don't overlook Loon Audio, http://www.loonaudio.com/.
Their basemate looks like a very simple and good piece of engineering and their custom light weight cables and smaller 90deg XLRs are also attractive.
Probably worth a mention that the kind of cable that runs into a mic on a shock mount is important. The cable can conduct mechanical noise and vibration into the mic bypassing the shock mount. We have some quite old XLR cables made with a fabric covered cable that is very flexible. They may have come as part of a Rycote kit from way back. The thin cable that Loon are using also felt very flexible when I had a look at their kit at NAB.

Bob, those are nice looking poles.

A local mixer bought one recently, I really like it. If I ever have a need for another pole, the Loons are on my short list of poles to look at.

Wayne

Planning on getting a 12 foot Loon (Dat's one big honker of a boid!) this week if something else doesn't break on the car - unexpectedly needed a new muffler yesterday :( I'll post a review when able.

I use a ambient 4140, I prefer to have a longer pole (16 footish) because I find I need that extra reach. You can always make the pole shorter but not longer. So for your 1st pole go longer, then get a shorty later.

So I am looking at getting a K-Tek KE110CCR. I would get a carbon fiber model, but budgetary reasons prevent it. Are any other peripherals I should get besides cables? I was told they make adapters you plug into mixers so that you connect cables to the adaptor instead of the mixer, thereby preventing wear on the mixer, but I don't know what they are called. Also, a guy I talked with mentioned I purchase I sort of short, cloth jacketed xlr cable that connects to the mic, and then has the normal xlr cable attach to it. Supposed to lessen handling noise or something.

This?

http://www.ktekbooms.com/products.php?id=53

Adds seven inches and doubles as a handgrip. Personally, I've never needed a handgrip, so I'm a little dubious about that. Just seems like extra weight to me, but I've never used (or seen) one, so take that for whatever it's worth. I think the idea of the second section of cable is to prevent any vibration noise coming from downstream on the cable. Never felt that it was needed (and I have that same pole you're looking at, except for the side adress), but who knows what I've been missing. Anybody ever use one of these things? Biggest handling noise issues I deal with are at the shockmount. I've actually banged that pole (aluminum and all) on the inside of a doorway and had the editor not even notice. I did, but still pretty impressive for a budget pole like that.

That wasn't it, no. Hmm. Thanks for trying to find it though. I know my description was vague.

Anyone heard of Digiflex cable? That is what they sell at Lorne Lapham in Vancouver, the place I am thinking of getting my boom from.

Hi Spencer,

I really wouldn't worry too much about connector wear & tear on your MixPre. I've had one for 5 years and it's built like a tank. You can always provide strain relief by hooking a carabiner or velcro loop to your mixer bag and suspending any excess cable through that. Having said that, I generally use a 7' coiled jumper cable from my boompole to my mixer--less chance of getting tangled up in dangling cable. Here's one from Remote Audio, but plenty of other companies make them as well:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...LR_Jumper.html

Again, I definitely recommend an ENG breakaway cable for the mixer to camera connection for the reasons mentioned in my previous post on this thread. Remote Audio, PSC and Canare all make good ones that run about $200-$225 US.

Yrs,

Hoi

What exactly is an eng breakaway cable?

So I should get a coiled jumper cable, a longer xlr to attach to that and the mixer, then an eng breakaway cable to run from the mixer to the cam?

You need the breakaway cable most of all.

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/produ...&cat=13&page=1

Don't skimp either. Get the 25' extension too:

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/produ...&cat=13&page=1

Worth every penny. I promise you.

Hi Spencer,

Marco's definitely pointed you to the right breakaway cable for your MixPre. If you look at the photo, the end with 3 connectors goes into your mixer--1 XLR left channel out, 1 XLR right channel out, 3.5mm stereo male mini plug to the tape return jack. The 4 connector end goes to your camera--1 XLR L, 1 XLR R, 3.5mm stereo-M plug to the headphone jack to send a return signal to the mixer and the 3.5mm stereo-F jack so that the camera op can still monitor audio as well. About 3' from the camera end there's a quick-release connector (visible at the bottom of the photo) that allows the camera op to quickly disconnect so that he/she can change camera positions, etc. with minimum fuss. Much easier than running 2 separate XLRs and an unshielded headphone cable! Plus as Marco points out, it's really easy to add extensions if needed.

Caveats about using the camera headphone jack for confidence monitoring:

A) Make sure that the headphone jack volume is actually turned up enough to send a return signal--some shooters I've worked with get lazy about audio monitoring when working with an sound recordist and actually leave the headphone volume all the way down unless reminded otherwise.

B) On many cameras, the headphone jack is pre-record, which means you at least know that the audio signal is reaching the camera, but it still doesn't tell you what the final recorded audio sounds like.

As for how everything hooks up, here's what I usually do when I'm booming and mixing:

Short shotgun mic-->boompole w/internal XLR cable-->coiled 7' jumper cable-->mixer-->breakaway cable-->camera

No need for anything between the boom pole and the mixer in this scenario but the coiled XLR jumper....

Yrs,

Hoi

I have been told that internally cabled booms, especially when made of aluminum, can have more handling noise, so I may get one that is externally cabled. What is the sound-chain like for an externally cabled boom? Mic>coiled jumper>mixer?

It's possible to get a rattle if you handle the pole roughly, but in practice it's a non-issue. I've never had a blown take over it. Some people prefer externally cabled poles, but they can be way more difficult to manage. Depends on your style I guess.

Marco, I ordered those cables from Trew...to avoid having to look elsewhere. Thanks for saving me time. I ordered a K-Tek KE 110 and a twenty five foot XLR from Lorne Lapham. Thanks guys. I wouldn't have made a purchase this quickly without your advice. I would be flying blind without this forum, given my lack of technical gusto. Haha.

I've had an interesting relationship with boom poles. Built my own painters pole boom.... relativelycheap, but subject to handling noise greater than whatI expected. used a non internally wired Gitzo carbon fibre... love at first sight. Bought a Gitzo internally wired aluminum pole on E-bay relatively cheaply.....discovered that: a) aluminum poles are not as bad as my painters pole experience might have suggested. b) Gitzo makes a quality pole it seems. c) internally wired poles are more convenient and frankly the allegations of increased noise from internally wired poles are not being born out on my use. Not sure if this helps, hope so.

Hey guys, I've just purchased (well offered to purchase, let's hope the seller hasnt sold yet) a used K-tek 110CCR. I was in debate between this and the Rode boompole and felt the price difference between the new Rode Boompole and the price I Was getting the K-tek for was not large enough to justify getting the "better" K-tek.

The seller was the same person who I bought my XH-A1 from last week. Prior to owning this XH-A1, I had been using a Sony HC1 for a couple of years. Now, I'm looking forward to getting more serious about video production.

I plan to mainly recording stand-up comedy around the DC area but also would like to get started on some short film projects. I hope the boom pole will be a good addition to what I personally have (the two cameras mentioned, a Sony MZ-RH1 Hi-MD Minidisc recorder, and an AT-822) plus what others who work with me will have.

A lot of posts in here in regards to the K-tek caught my eye:

Glad to hear this. The first project I'm planning on working on will be mockumentary so hopefully the K-tek will work well for me too.


Bummed to hear the negatives on the Aluminum K-tek from you. Well, at least I got the side exit part down with my CCR purchase.

Good to hear that the weight difference is not too bad in your eyes. The price of a new carbon fiber vs. the price of the used Ktek Aluminum 110CCR was pretty high so the carbon fiber was really no option for me.

Yikes, I'll have to look out for this.

This is where I wonder what else I will need. There's a lot of discussion on ENG breakaway cables. I don't have a mixer right now - prob can't make that purchase and everything that goes with it for a while. I was just planning on recording with the boom pole either to my MZ-RH1 Hi-MD or to my XH-A1 (hmm.. could I even use my laptop? A 15" 2.2 ghz MacBook Pro?). So what exactly should I get in terms of size and quantity for this (1 cable? 2 cables?)

Sorry for the newbie questions. Like I said, I'm pretty new to this so any advice would be appreciated.

Shahryar: Glad my comments were of use to you. I still love my K-Tek although I'm starting to see my Cavision shockmount coming apart at the rubber "welded" seam after only a few months of light use. We ABUSED the Rycote all-in-one version at my former 9 - 5 and to the best of my knowledge it still looks like new. Sorry for the hijack...

No problem. I do need to get a shockmount for my mic to use with my boompole. So.. avoid the cavision? I was leaning towards something from Rode.

Rycote | Large Hole Softie Mount & Pistol Grip | 033703

This, in the right size, will be my next mount. Same one I spec'd for the former 9 - 5. Inexpensive, it works well enough for my needs and simple. I HATE the cris-crossing elastic band mounts, but that's MY issue...

ah, ok. So you'd recommend this for me? - to use with my AT-822 and K-tek 110CCR?

$119 is a bit higher than what I would like to spend. I had been discussing that AT822 specifically in this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-xh-...tml#post935680 and the Rode SM4 was recommended. After seeing the price of $50, I got my hopes up on buying something at that price level.

But if I was to venture out to the $100+ level, How would your suggested Rycote compare to the K-tek GPS? K-Tek | K-GPS - Universal Microphone Suspension Mount | K-GPS. I Ask about this particular model because the person I just offered to buy the used K-tek 100CCR from (and who I already bought my used Xh-a1 from - it arrived last week) is also selling this shock mount. I'm wondering if perhaps if I could work out a deal with him to include this shockmount with the K-tek boompole - but I wanted to make sure I definitely wanted to spend this amount - of course, I would love to spend less (w/ the SM4 that is). Even spending the $190 I'm planning to spend on the used K-tek 110 CCR required a bit of thought on my end but I figure it's worth it to spend an extra $40 for what seems to be the better boom pole.

Try this invision 7 | B&H Photo Video for shockmount and it will beat the others. But no windjammer for this one.

T

My used K-Tek | KE-110CCR Avalon Series Aluminum Boompole | KE-110CCR arrived today and seems to be in good shape. Hopefully i'll get to use it real soon - I still need to get a mic to use with the boom pole, a mount, and a windjammer thought. I've noted Toenis's advice for the invision 7 & Shaun's advice for the Rycote. When Toenis brought up the windjammer, I shot him an e-mail asking a bit more on it, and he gave me a nice, helpful response. I thought I'd post it here for other people to reference:

I myself am really not a DIY guy so I'm a little scared to try my own like Toenis suggested, but let me look at it some more and decide.

For using my stereo mic (AT-822) with my camera (XH-A1), I'm planning on getting an SM4.

Rycote's S-Series Windjammers incorporate the Invision lyre mounting system and are quite a bit less expensive than the full kit.

Shahryar, Did you buy the shockmount, windjammer etc?


I was planning to buy some sort of stand along with a boom pole. What is a C stand and how is it different from other stands? and what is a grip head and is it required to put a boom pole on a stand? And any suggestions? I am planning for dramatic short films (not professional work, but still want to achieve some quality). I don't have the luxury of boom boys and like, so I'll have to write scenes where the dialogue happens relatively in a fixed location and I can use a stand+boom to capture dialogue. Does that even make sense? I still haven't bought any equipment and was planning to buy during thanksgiving. Does anyone offer deals on professional equipment at all?

Here's an interesting video clip on C-stands, grip heads, and how to use them. PixelCorps.tv To fly a mic over the set, you add a holder like a fishing rod holder you'd use on a fishing boat ... Remote Audio: Boom Boy ... clamped in the grip head to hold the mic boom.

Like this: General Brand | Boom Pole Holder | REMBOMAST | B&H Photo Video

You can get the same thing at a sporting goods store that sells fishing gear for probably 10 bucks or so. Only difference is that the base is like a big screw instead of a rod, but it works equally well. If you don't have an extra C-stand, you can use a grip head on a light stand, but it's harder to sandbag a light stand.