I'm starting to dislike shotguns. What's up with them?

Jay Massengill · January 6th, 2004, 09:34 AM

If you follow my posts, you'll see the AT873r pop up quite a few times. (I keep waiting for someone to say "will you stop already with the AT873r's!!").
I like this mic very much for its clarity, sensitivity, very small size and weight, low handling noise, low cost and matte black finish. It's certainly not the lowest noise mic around and I haven't directly compared it to an Oktava, but for interior booming it works very well for me for corporate work. I'm pretty certain it has lower handling noise than the Oktava, which is generally the only complaint most people have with a good QC'ed Oktava.
This AT uses an extremely small diaphragm, so its clarity comes at the expense of that phat sound even when used close up. It's definitely not a VO mic, but if you want good clarity without harshness it will definitely do that, especially if you must use it further away than you'd like. The NT3 is lower noise and warmer sounding, but much less practical for manual booming.
It also has relatively low off-axis coloration and it's easy to wind protect due to its traditional shape but very small size.
I think it's a great tool to have on hand, as long as you have full 48-volt phantom and you don't need it for VO.

Matt Gettemeier · January 6th, 2004, 09:54 AM

The only place I know to order the Oktava hyper caps is http://www.sound-room.com

If you're only ordering TWO caps then the charge to "match them" seems a little high to me. I'd be very interested to see how they match them. (It's the same price to match 1-3 pairs of caps.)

I sent out a goofy recording of me opening a Diet Coke and shaking a rocks glass. It's a stereo recording with an NTK tube mic and one of the Oktavas. Hardly a matched set. Know what? It sounds pretty damn good.

Maybe $64 each kind of sucks after you got a compete mic for $49, but we can't be choosers here. Just because we got a bargain in one area doesn't mean that other businesses shouldn't make a reasonable living.

At least that's how I'm looking at it. Also since the Sound Room has such a good rep regarding the Oktavas you should be getting the best caps available.

About the only thing that DOES concern me is that last point. If they have the best Oktava inventory then how far from "matched" can two hyper caps BE?

BTW Aaron, the first thing it says at Sound Room is "We ship worldwide".

If you get the total Oktava kit right from the start their prices are reasonable... otherwise get a mic on ebay and buy the caps from the Sound Room? I don't know if that's a good idea or not?

Had I known I would like this mic this much I would have just got 'em as a complete 3 cap kit. The piece of mind is worth the extra cash over the lowest possible sale price from a less meticulous dealer.

Aaron Koolen · January 6th, 2004, 02:03 PM

Matt, Yeah I noticed that on their site ;) Sent an email off for pricing costs to here. Found a New Zealand distributor too finally so I will see if they stock them. Then I might be able to go in and try them. Your US$49 dollars was a steal! It's about US$190 now for one mic. You lucky sod! If they turn out to be better for what I need than my ME66 then I might sell the ME66 and I'd still have some cash spare.

Aaron

Bryan Beasleigh · January 6th, 2004, 09:24 PM

How come the Limies, Kiwi's n' Aussies all call people they like a silly sod, or a lucky sod? Me old grandmum used to tell me "now don't be a silly sod , dear"

Next tuesday will be the founding meeting of Gear Sluts Anon. Today Matt buys another mic , a Rode NT3 and I order a matched pair of THE hytpercardoids. Maybe if we put them in a cage together, ply them with cheap wine and soft music they'll reproduce.

Aaron Koolen · January 6th, 2004, 10:06 PM

Hmm that's interesting actually....I have no idea of it's historical origins but It's usually used, in the case of "lucky sod" as a congratulation mixed with a bit of jealousy or envy. Sod is a very tame insult, if it can be called that at all (Like the word "bugger" in "Ya lucky bugger").

This reminds me of a WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) show where they went to Australia. Some of the wrestlers were talking with a local and the local said something along the lines of "Yeah yeah, I know who you buggers are." They took offence thinking of course "bugger" to be a vile word. ;)

Good old slang aye!

Well, guess before it even starts I have cured myself from having to join "Gear Sluts Anonymous" by going and buying a house :)...Although the temptation is oh so there, especially with the exchange rates to the US at the moment. I still need a production video monitor....DV deck....Light kit....

Aaron

Bryan Beasleigh · January 6th, 2004, 10:21 PM

The house is paid for Aaron, I'm older than dirt. Why i'm a gear slut. Cuz I like toyz.

I watched a buddy scrap along and save, he got sick and rode it out and still worked. The end of last March he went home and took disability, he died like a dog within a month. He was also 10 years younger than me. He never did the things he dreamed about. My wife will have one hell of a garage sale when they put me in the big tool box.

I was born in Britain and immigrated to canada so i know what a sod is. I always thought it funny. It actually is an affectionate term.

Aaron Koolen · January 6th, 2004, 10:36 PM

Haha Bryan! Older than dirt is damned old ;)

Yup it's a shame too many people never even think they can do the things they dream about so don't bother.

Ahh so that's what a Hoser it? I used to listen to an old Canadian punk band that had a song called "Kill the Hosers" Never knew what one was but it was a funny song ;)

Oops, anyway I've gone OT. Oktava distributor away on holiday til Monday so I have to wait for a price list til then.

Aaron

Frank Granovski · January 7th, 2004, 12:48 AM

About the Behringer B-5, is it a cardioid, or a cardioid that's stretches forward a bit more like a semi-supercardioid? Is there a product website anywhere?

Bryan Beasleigh · January 7th, 2004, 01:23 AM

www.behringer.com: http://www.behringer.com/B-5/index.cfm?lang=eng

The B-5 is a short capsule preamp with 2 capsules. one cardoid and one omni. The pickup of an omni is like a circle, 360 degrees. The cardoid (heart shaped pattern) has about a 140-160 degree -pattern, almost a semi circle.

A hyper cardoid is tighter and listens to an area like a big pie wedge, usually to 120 degrees. A hyper has a bit of a tail , in that it picks up sound directly behind it.

There is no inexpensive mic that will zoom and change patterns properly. The little Apex cardoid seems to hold the most promise. i'll pack my recorder and try to find one

Frank Granovski · January 7th, 2004, 01:49 AM

Thanks for the explaination; and I already go the link from Jan, but missed it.

http://www.behringer.com/02_products...d=B-5&lang=eng

"One cardoid and one omni," eh? That's no good. That's not what I'm looking for. I'll be looking forward to more info on that Apex, Bryan. Thanks, again.

Jay Massengill · January 7th, 2004, 09:31 AM

I had an APEX 190 that was part of a bundle. The mic had good sound for it's very low cost (worked out to about $10 as I figured it). Unfortunately, after it warmed up (like 5 minutes) it seemed to have a thermal problem that sounded like phantom leakage.
It started out very small as problems with phantom power go, I could just barely distinguish it at first. But it seemed to be getting worse and worse and became intolerable. At that point I decided to examine the guts and see how it was built. All surface mount circuitry, so hot-rodding it like the Oktava was not possible, even if I could have found a schematic. I was amazed that the mic could have such good sound with how ultra-cheap the actual capsule and its mount appeared to be. Also don't expect to put your mic back together if you try this at home, removing the innards was pretty destructive.
It's now my official "Matte Black Secret Agent Micro-Shotgun That Can Hear A Whisper At 50 yards Movie Prop". It really is a great looking mic body, but unfortunately that's not high on the list of attributes for mics...
If you try one out, be sure to power it for at least 10 minutes and listen very closely with sensitive headphones for a tiny crunchy rumble.

Aaron Koolen · January 7th, 2004, 05:16 PM

Found this will looking for Oktava mc012 sellers.

http://testing.holmerup.biz/mic_pretest/index_en.html

Contains guitar, and vocals (Singing, unfortunately not dialogue)

I've downloaded some stuff but listening at work all the mics sound almost the same - i.e. My speakers suck dogs bollocks.

The singing is a little off but might be at least something for you.

Aaron

Joe Kras · January 8th, 2004, 08:19 AM

Thanks for the link, Aaron.

Can I assume that the high end clipping is just from not having their levels set correctly, and not from something inherently bad with the mics?

Also, anyone know what the Octave MC 012 Lomo M3 is? Sounds like a special edition BMW :).

Bryan Beasleigh · January 8th, 2004, 12:11 PM

The LOMO 3 head is a 33mm lollipop cardoid capsule, that will scew onto an oktava preamp. $380 at the sound room.

http://www.oktava.com/

"Incredible-sounding additions to your MC012! Both heads use the 33mm diaphragm, LOMO-designed capsule now being re-manufactured for RTT. Yes, these are the Russian-made replacement diaphragms made for the famous Neumann U87 cardioid. and they have that famous 'warm yet bright' ambient field with a classic cardioid (Uni) head design. You don't have to buy a complete "high-end" large diaphragm unit, because this operates off your MC012 preamp! With these, there is NOTHING you can't do with a complete MC012 assembly - and do it well. "

My set of matched hypercardoid THE's are on the way. Whoooo Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! they weren't sure if they wouldget a match withwhat they had left. The next shipment from the factory would be a month out.

When I get them i will record a test and compare them to the oktava hypercardoid and the ME66 (simply as a comparison because so many people have that mic)

Joe Kras · January 8th, 2004, 12:18 PM

Thanks, Beaser.

I'll be awaiting your report on the THE's.

January 6th, 2004, 02:03 PM	#48
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Matt, Yeah I noticed that on their site ;) Sent an email off for pricing costs to here. Found a New Zealand distributor too finally so I will see if they stock them. Then I might be able to go in and try them. Your US$49 dollars was a steal! It's about US$190 now for one mic. You lucky sod! If they turn out to be better for what I need than my ME66 then I might sell the ME66 and I'd still have some cash spare. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

January 6th, 2004, 10:06 PM	#50
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Hmm that's interesting actually....I have no idea of it's historical origins but It's usually used, in the case of "lucky sod" as a congratulation mixed with a bit of jealousy or envy. Sod is a very tame insult, if it can be called that at all (Like the word "bugger" in "Ya lucky bugger"). This reminds me of a WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) show where they went to Australia. Some of the wrestlers were talking with a local and the local said something along the lines of "Yeah yeah, I know who you buggers are." They took offence thinking of course "bugger" to be a vile word. ;) Good old slang aye! Well, guess before it even starts I have cured myself from having to join "Gear Sluts Anonymous" by going and buying a house :)...Although the temptation is oh so there, especially with the exchange rates to the US at the moment. I still need a production video monitor....DV deck....Light kit.... Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

January 6th, 2004, 10:36 PM	#52
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Haha Bryan! Older than dirt is damned old ;) Yup it's a shame too many people never even think they can do the things they dream about so don't bother. Ahh so that's what a Hoser it? I used to listen to an old Canadian punk band that had a song called "Kill the Hosers" Never knew what one was but it was a funny song ;) Oops, anyway I've gone OT. Oktava distributor away on holiday til Monday so I have to wait for a price list til then. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

January 7th, 2004, 05:16 PM	#57
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Another link for mic samples.. Found this will looking for Oktava mc012 sellers. http://testing.holmerup.biz/mic_pretest/index_en.html Contains guitar, and vocals (Singing, unfortunately not dialogue) I've downloaded some stuff but listening at work all the mics sound almost the same - i.e. My speakers suck dogs bollocks. The singing is a little off but might be at least something for you. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

January 6th, 2004, 09:34 AM	#46
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	If you follow my posts, you'll see the AT873r pop up quite a few times. (I keep waiting for someone to say "will you stop already with the AT873r's!!"). I like this mic very much for its clarity, sensitivity, very small size and weight, low handling noise, low cost and matte black finish. It's certainly not the lowest noise mic around and I haven't directly compared it to an Oktava, but for interior booming it works very well for me for corporate work. I'm pretty certain it has lower handling noise than the Oktava, which is generally the only complaint most people have with a good QC'ed Oktava. This AT uses an extremely small diaphragm, so its clarity comes at the expense of that phat sound even when used close up. It's definitely not a VO mic, but if you want good clarity without harshness it will definitely do that, especially if you must use it further away than you'd like. The NT3 is lower noise and warmer sounding, but much less practical for manual booming. It also has relatively low off-axis coloration and it's easy to wind protect due to its traditional shape but very small size. I think it's a great tool to have on hand, as long as you have full 48-volt phantom and you don't need it for VO.

January 6th, 2004, 09:54 AM	#47
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	The only place I know to order the Oktava hyper caps is http://www.sound-room.com If you're only ordering TWO caps then the charge to "match them" seems a little high to me. I'd be very interested to see how they match them. (It's the same price to match 1-3 pairs of caps.) I sent out a goofy recording of me opening a Diet Coke and shaking a rocks glass. It's a stereo recording with an NTK tube mic and one of the Oktavas. Hardly a matched set. Know what? It sounds pretty damn good. Maybe $64 each kind of sucks after you got a compete mic for $49, but we can't be choosers here. Just because we got a bargain in one area doesn't mean that other businesses shouldn't make a reasonable living. At least that's how I'm looking at it. Also since the Sound Room has such a good rep regarding the Oktavas you should be getting the best caps available. About the only thing that DOES concern me is that last point. If they have the best Oktava inventory then how far from "matched" can two hyper caps BE? BTW Aaron, the first thing it says at Sound Room is "We ship worldwide". If you get the total Oktava kit right from the start their prices are reasonable... otherwise get a mic on ebay and buy the caps from the Sound Room? I don't know if that's a good idea or not? Had I known I would like this mic this much I would have just got 'em as a complete 3 cap kit. The piece of mind is worth the extra cash over the lowest possible sale price from a less meticulous dealer.

January 6th, 2004, 09:24 PM	#49
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	How come the Limies, Kiwi's n' Aussies all call people they like a silly sod, or a lucky sod? Me old grandmum used to tell me "now don't be a silly sod , dear" Next tuesday will be the founding meeting of Gear Sluts Anon. Today Matt buys another mic , a Rode NT3 and I order a matched pair of THE hytpercardoids. Maybe if we put them in a cage together, ply them with cheap wine and soft music they'll reproduce.

January 6th, 2004, 10:21 PM	#51
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	The house is paid for Aaron, I'm older than dirt. Why i'm a gear slut. Cuz I like toyz. I watched a buddy scrap along and save, he got sick and rode it out and still worked. The end of last March he went home and took disability, he died like a dog within a month. He was also 10 years younger than me. He never did the things he dreamed about. My wife will have one hell of a garage sale when they put me in the big tool box. I was born in Britain and immigrated to canada so i know what a sod is. I always thought it funny. It actually is an affectionate term.

January 7th, 2004, 12:48 AM	#53
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	About the Behringer B-5, is it a cardioid, or a cardioid that's stretches forward a bit more like a semi-supercardioid? Is there a product website anywhere?

January 7th, 2004, 01:23 AM	#54
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	www.behringer.com: http://www.behringer.com/B-5/index.cfm?lang=eng The B-5 is a short capsule preamp with 2 capsules. one cardoid and one omni. The pickup of an omni is like a circle, 360 degrees. The cardoid (heart shaped pattern) has about a 140-160 degree -pattern, almost a semi circle. A hyper cardoid is tighter and listens to an area like a big pie wedge, usually to 120 degrees. A hyper has a bit of a tail , in that it picks up sound directly behind it. There is no inexpensive mic that will zoom and change patterns properly. The little Apex cardoid seems to hold the most promise. i'll pack my recorder and try to find one

January 7th, 2004, 01:49 AM	#55
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Thanks for the explaination; and I already go the link from Jan, but missed it. http://www.behringer.com/02_products...d=B-5&lang=eng "One cardoid and one omni," eh? That's no good. That's not what I'm looking for. I'll be looking forward to more info on that Apex, Bryan. Thanks, again.

January 7th, 2004, 09:31 AM	#56
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	I had an APEX 190 that was part of a bundle. The mic had good sound for it's very low cost (worked out to about $10 as I figured it). Unfortunately, after it warmed up (like 5 minutes) it seemed to have a thermal problem that sounded like phantom leakage. It started out very small as problems with phantom power go, I could just barely distinguish it at first. But it seemed to be getting worse and worse and became intolerable. At that point I decided to examine the guts and see how it was built. All surface mount circuitry, so hot-rodding it like the Oktava was not possible, even if I could have found a schematic. I was amazed that the mic could have such good sound with how ultra-cheap the actual capsule and its mount appeared to be. Also don't expect to put your mic back together if you try this at home, removing the innards was pretty destructive. It's now my official "Matte Black Secret Agent Micro-Shotgun That Can Hear A Whisper At 50 yards Movie Prop". It really is a great looking mic body, but unfortunately that's not high on the list of attributes for mics... If you try one out, be sure to power it for at least 10 minutes and listen very closely with sensitive headphones for a tiny crunchy rumble.

January 8th, 2004, 08:19 AM	#58
Joe Kras Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 54	Thanks for the link, Aaron. Can I assume that the high end clipping is just from not having their levels set correctly, and not from something inherently bad with the mics? Also, anyone know what the Octave MC 012 Lomo M3 is? Sounds like a special edition BMW :).

January 8th, 2004, 12:11 PM	#59
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	The LOMO 3 head is a 33mm lollipop cardoid capsule, that will scew onto an oktava preamp. $380 at the sound room. http://www.oktava.com/ "Incredible-sounding additions to your MC012! Both heads use the 33mm diaphragm, LOMO-designed capsule now being re-manufactured for RTT. Yes, these are the Russian-made replacement diaphragms made for the famous Neumann U87 cardioid. and they have that famous 'warm yet bright' ambient field with a classic cardioid (Uni) head design. You don't have to buy a complete "high-end" large diaphragm unit, because this operates off your MC012 preamp! With these, there is NOTHING you can't do with a complete MC012 assembly - and do it well. " My set of matched hypercardoid THE's are on the way. Whoooo Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! they weren't sure if they wouldget a match withwhat they had left. The next shipment from the factory would be a month out. When I get them i will record a test and compare them to the oktava hypercardoid and the ME66 (simply as a comparison because so many people have that mic)

January 8th, 2004, 12:18 PM	#60
Joe Kras Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 54	Thanks, Beaser. I'll be awaiting your report on the THE's.