What do you do with one good mic?
 

A man walks into his doctors office with a frog on his head.
The Dr says "How did this happen"
To which the frog replies "It all started with a wart on my _ss"

2 1/2 years ago I bought a TRV20.

Last week I bought a Schoeps MK41 to use with my 302 mixer and VX2000. The Mic sounds great through the 302 into my marantz recorder but sounded like hell through the camera.

This week, my VX2000 has been modified do the audio in is input directly into the cameras analog to digital converter, through the VTR RCA input terminals. It's on it's way back to me as of monday.

Now i have a really fine audio chain and one really good mic, I could use the Oktavas with it but never the ME66. (shudder)

For the time being, that's the way it will work but i'll need either a short shotgun or another Schoeps to round out the system.

Any thoughts from the group, I'm all ears. I'm mainly into dialog between 2 to 4 people in a documentary setting. I also get involved with social events and military reneactment and cerimony.

I make full use of my PMD670 recorder as well, so that's usually got the oktavas tied up.

Re: What do you do with one good mic?
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh :
Last week I bought a Schoeps MK41. The Mic sounded like hell through the camera.-->>

I have not yet been in hell. What was the problem??

Good joke, Bryan. I think I heard that one before in another lifetime. Frog jokes are always good.

How much did you pay for the Schoeps MK41?

Now for the stupid question: which mic is better, the Schoeps MK41 or the Apex 191?

Here's another question: what's the difference between a hyper-cardioid and a super-cardioid?

The MK41 has a tighter pattern than a hypercardoid. The Schoeps is 1180US with a 15% increase due apr 1.

Have to go with the obvious joke...
 

What to do with one good mic?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting


Sorry, had to do it. You'd think this was dv.com or something...

I have another question:

• which do you switch on first, the mic or the cam?

I'm still waiting for answers for my other 2 questions:[list=1][*]which mic is better, the Schoeps MK41 or the Apex 191?[*]what's the difference between a hyper-cardioid and a super-cardioid?[/list=1]Bryan? :-))

I answered question 2 already.
So far as question 1 it would depend on what your needs are. The MK41 requires phantom , the Apex can operate on an AA battery <; )

Actually I turn my mixer on first , then the camera. The schoeps doesn't have a switch, either do the oktavas

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh :
Last week I bought a Schoeps MK41. The Mic sounded like hell through the camera.-->>

Jan Roovers asks
I have not yet been in hell. What was the problem??

The Schoeps, oktava or any other decent mic I own sounds great through my mixer or flash recorder. Run it through the VX2000 and it's enough to make a grown man cry.

Lousy freq response, dynamic range and far too much noise. The limitations of the Sony preamp aren't that noticeable with the ME66 or a dynamic.
http://www.gregjwinter.com/modification2.htm

Hi Bryan,

A little bird told me that using a Beachtek DXA-8 would probably help improve your situation ;) Mine is on the way from the West Coast.

Looking at Greg's site, it looks like the mod makes your VX2000 have equal and in some cases better stats than your PMD670. That's impressive...I wonder if he can do XM2 mods.. ;)

Aaron

I've become obsessed with audio.

The Beach is a good option to supply phantom, limiters and allow the best throughput but it won't make a bad preamp better.

None of the higher end equipment is that much of a gamble. I paid about $1150 for my Schoeps. In April the price is up 15%. In 5 years it'll still be worth what i paid, provided i don't slam the car door on it or drop it off of the CN Tower.

Good audio has incredible impact.

So is that mic an investment?

I wanted to drop a penny from "the cage" once, but decided against it. Nothing like being up on the CN Tower! It's so windy up there, your mic would need one of those muffy covers.

It is an investment in quality audio. The plus is that it won't depreciate that much. It's good German technology Frank ; 0

Nothing like have a bit of Chutzpah, Herr Meister Fotograf. Guten Abend! :-))

This talk of the Shoeps MK41 is really intriguing. Where's the best place to get one before the price increase? Is the Shoeps as good at recording music as it is dialogue? I have a DVX100 by the way--how would a Shoeps fare with it?

A DVX100 will be simply amazing with the MK41. The Recording magazine small condenser shoot out went through the musical end and rated the Schoeps the best all round.

The AT 5051/4053 setup id pretty well. they reviewed the cardoid (4051) but the hyper (4053) is supposed to kick as_.

Thanks for the info.

How do you mount this on a boom, given its rather small size? I also find that very few regular microphone suppliers list it. Why is that?

Trew,Coffey,Location Sound, Cascade, Oade, Mic Supply,
there are 28 dealers in the US and 5 or so in Canada. They are choosey about who sells them and they are fair traded which means it's hard to get a discounted price. I got about 5% off the list and i considered myself lucky.


http://www.reddingaudio.com/schoeps/dealers.php


You can use a Schoeps, Rycote , Lightwave or a PSC to hang this off a pole. (I'm sure there are others) My rycote baby Ball gags fit the mic perfectly

It all looks pretty damn delicious. I like the maple box kit. :D

I assume it's an XLR connection? Would an AT shockmount work for it? It definitely looks like a microphone for the ages.

P.S. One more question: if the Schoeps proves an elusive goal at this time for me, what would you recommend as a strong if somewhat less pricey alternate? An AT 4073a perhaps? In a perfect world I'd have a shelf of wonder mics. :) I'm looking for a mic that is, if anything, more suited for music/singing than speaking voice, since I have an adequate voice mike at this time (SennME66).

The DVX100 audio is good, but it will not do justice to the Schoeps, at least not for music. A dual system would give much better sound quality, for example, the M-audio Duo recording onto a laptop.
The Schoeps is a top quality microphone. The better the equipment you use with it, the better it will sound. I record classical music using the MK41 with an MK8 as M/S stereo, into a Mackie mixer, Lynx L22 A/D converter, recording at 24 bit 192K onto a Dell laptop in a docking station. The sound is incredible. Way better than CD. Even when it is reduced back down to 16 bit 48 k to make a DVD, it still sounds phenomenal.
Patrick

Patrick, if you are on a PC system, try the iZotope for your dither down to 16, using triangle mode. You'll be surprised, I think. Very smooth, no zipping.

Patrick, that definitely does sounds phenomenal, and it's very impressive a setup, but it might be a wee bit overkill for my purposes--though given unlimited resources why not? :) I plan to do some location taping of musicians in rather close quarters, and am looking for an optimum mic, boomed, that would perhaps capture music and/or a singing voice or group better than other mics.

Barry
Look at the Oktava hypercardoid, there are some exapmples on that sitethat I sent you. The AT 4053a is an excellent alternative at $400 for a hyper capsule and preamp. The 4073 is also an excellent short shotgun at $530. Jeff Donald uses the long gun 4071 for nature audio, so you know that end of the line has to be good.

My VX2000 is sitting in customs right now having been modofied by Greg Winters.
http://www.gregjwinter.com/modification2.htm

If you read the mod info, I now record directly to the camera Analog to Digital converter at line level. I have to use my Sound Devices 302 or an MP1 for all inputs. it's as good as it gets.

Barry,
For a small music group, I think it would definitely be worth recording in stereo. You can get matched pairs of the Oktavas or the Rode NT5 (or the Rode NT4 stereo mike).

This is a good article about recording in stereo:
http://www.tape.com/Bartlett_Articles/stereo_recording_procedures.html

Dual system is not hugely expensive, if you already have a laptop. The M-audio USB duo is $250.

Douglas,
I am using Soundforge 6, at its highest quality settings, to reduce to 16bit 48K. Is Izotope better?

Patrick

Thanks for the info; I'm becoming an honorary audio geek. :)

The other title referenced in the Bruce Bartlett article is at

http://www.tape.com/Bartlett_Article...echniques.html

yes, the iZotope is better. It's the best dithering tool I've heard. They also have a great guide to dithering on their website. Well worth the read.

The Rode N4 definitely looks promising, since until now I haven't paid much attention to stereo mics. The more I read about this model the more exceptional it seems. I would imagine I'd use it primarily on a boom.

The NT4 or for that matter any stereo rig will not give a proper image if boomed for all but a few instrumental applications. many of the tapers use a light stand with the stereo rig placed either well above the crowd , pointing at the subject or at a level plane , facing the subject.

FYI: Rode has done well in producing reasonably priced microphones that give amazing value for the dollar spent. They aren't made in china and are built like the proverbial brick out building :)

the Rode manual will give a few hints
http://www.rodemicrophones.com/usermanuals/nt4um.pdf

There are a few tutorials, i'll try and post some links.

http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/faq-mic.html
http://www.josephson.com

Thanks for the "light stand" advice; I can see that handling stereo is an inherently different proposition than booming for dialogue. :D

Re: What do you do with one good mic?
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh :

This week, my VX2000 has been modified do the audio in is input directly into the cameras analog to digital converter, through the VTR RCA input terminals. It's on it's way back to me as of monday.

Now i have a really fine audio chain and one really good mic, I could use the Oktavas with it but never the ME66. (shudder)-->>>

Could explain what you are talking about? What mod did you do and why can't you use the ME66?

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh :
For the time being, that's the way it will work but i'll need either a short shotgun or another Schoeps to round out the system.

Any thoughts from the group, I'm all ears. I'm mainly into dialog between 2 to 4 people in a documentary setting. I also get involved with social events and military reneactment and cerimony.
-->>>

When two people are being interviewed and they are both on camera, go with one mike if you can. Otherwise you have to constantly ride the mikes up and down depending on who's talking.

You usually can find a "sweet spot" where both will sound good. If one person is off camera asking the questions, then definitely go with two mikes, one for each person.

You can devote a whole forum on the strategies of miking 3 & 4 people.

Alessandro Machi wrote:Bryan?

Well the mod I did is all over this forum, as a matter of fact the gist of the mod was in the quotes you posted. It shouldn't take much effort to find the whole storey and links.

The ME66 is a very harsh mic and has horrible off axis coloration. I don't like it at all.

So far as two mics, it's very easily done. One on the main group and one on the single person away from the first mics pattern. Quite often I'll speak from behind the camera
Record each mic on it's own track and cut the best audio in for each scene. I could use lavoliers but I don't want to. It's also possible to use a stereo configuration and sum to mono. that way you wind up with an irregular or oval pattern

I was asking an equipment question and not about technique.

Harsh?

What an interesting word to use. I've found it spectacular for doing Voiceover work, Live Video Opera recording either as the floor mikes or on camera, Interviews, and for mounting on camera in general.

Perhaps if you padded it down you'd get better results. The Mike is way too sensitive.

Could you assume that I may not like the mic. A pad is not the answer to everything although I do aggree the mic is far too hot.

I used to run it through a passive beach, which is amongst other things an adjustable pad.

I listen to loud machine rooms with everything from recip to screw compressors every day and enjoy decent audio when I'm not being subjected to high levels of noise polution.

Like everything else we grow and keep progressing up the audio chain. I'm older than dirt and deserve it ;-)

Read the links about the modification, I hope you'll understand.
Listen to Kens comparison of an ME66 and an MKH416.

When you say passive Beach, do you mean Beachtek?

I'm not saying the ME-66 is the best mike out there, but when combined with the built in power supply it is incredibly versatile.

You haven't experienced the ME-66's total potential if you don't pad it at least 10 DB for normal sounds and between 15-20 DB for loud environments.

Alessandro, give it a rest. Yes, Bryan has had a ME66 for a number of years, and has experienced it's total potential. I suggest also to read some of Bryan's earlier posts in this forum.

Alessandro
There are better mics out there. The Beach has a fixed 50 db pad as well as 2 10 db adjustable pads. The pre modified VX2000 needed the hot output of the K6/ME66 to get a high enough input so the lousy preamps would get noisy.

Please leave it alone. You aren't the only person in the world to use an ME66 or pads

My Oktavas have a 10 db pad in the kit, that fits between the capsule and mic preamp. My 302 and PMD670 have pads in the input stages before the preamps.

Be happy, Let me be happy with what floats my boast.

<<<-- Originally posted by Alessandro Machi : When you say passive Beach, do you mean Beachtek?

I'm not saying the ME-66 is the best mike out there, but when combined with the built in power supply it is incredibly versatile.

You haven't experienced the ME-66's total potential if you don't pad it at least 10 DB for normal sounds and between 15-20 DB for loud environments. -->>>

I clearly stated up above that the ME-66 is not necessarily the best mike out there.

If you did not like the ME-66 based on your overall set-up, then you may have made a wise decision, for you. But if you extrapolate that position and claim the ME-66 is not a good microphone in general because of a specific camera limitation you aren't effectively helping others or being fair to the ME-66 product.