Choosing a Solid State Sound Recorder for Film Production

[John Willett]

I would add the new NAGRA LB to your list - similar price to the SD 702 (£1,600 in the UK).

Very nice machine.

Though I went for it's big brother the Nagra VI (but that's x3 the price).

[Mark Boyer]

My vote is Fostex, I sold my Microtrack and moved up to the Fostex FR-2LE. You can hook it up to a extenal power supply and it has a better display. This recorder was made for field recording. Fostex is what the Pro Location Sound guys prefer.

[Dean Sensui]

Originally Posted by Nelson Alexandre

- Edirol: The worst preamps of the lot! But it compensates that with the 4 inputs if you need them.

From what I read, the Edirol R-44's preamps aren't perfectly quiet, but according to one user who records concerts the noise floor is below the noise level of the venues in which he records. Also, Oade Brothers offers a modified R-44 for about the same price as a new one, and the preamps are rebuilt to make them a lot quieter.

Ordering for Oade Brothers Audio: Edirol R44 Super MOD- Ground Shipping

For my own work, the situations are generally "real life", and the ambient noise is far above the preamp noise floor of the R-44. I believe it's also lower than my camera, a Sony EX1.

[Jacques Mersereau]

THis is for Mr. Willett,

How do you like your Nagra VI? I saw it at NAB and am very interested in knowing how the mic preamps stack up against Sound Devices and THe Zaxcom Deva?

I hope to do a lot of nature audio recording and need the best possible pre amps to work with my neumann and schoeps mics.

TIA,

Jacques

[Paul Cascio]

Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but if you use one of these recorders, do you still need a mixer (assuming your not exceeding the inputs/channels)?

[Dan Brockett]

Paul:

That would probably depend on what you are recording, are you recording yourself while doing other operations, if you have a sound person, how many cameras you need to route your output to, etc.

If you are a sound mixer, yes, you would want to use a separate mixer whenever possible. Better controls, panning, cuts, shelving and or roll off filters, more routing options to multiple cameras besides the recorder, etc.

OTOH, if you are scraping buy with a camera with bad sound quality recording as many of them have, a recorder even without a good mixer would provide a noticeable boost in sound quality.

Depends on you and what you are trying to accomplish.

Dan

[Stuart Graham]

Paul Cascio: That's a coincidence I was just thinking the same thing myself!

Dan Brockett: What if you do have a sound man, can you just use a sound recorder without a mixer? Will a mixer make any difference?

Previously I thought of just controlling levels on the sound recorder and not bothering with a mixer. If you need both that's going to cost megabucks for two decent quality units.

[Nelson Alexandre]

Originally Posted by Dean Sensui

From what I read, the Edirol R-44's preamps aren't perfectly quiet, but according to one user who records concerts the noise floor is below the noise level of the venues in which he records. Also, Oade Brothers offers a modified R-44 for about the same price as a new one, and the preamps are rebuilt to make them a lot quieter.
(...)
For my own work, the situations are generally "real life", and the ambient noise is far above the preamp noise floor of the R-44. I believe it's also lower than my camera, a Sony EX1.

Dean, if you record in the same circumstances with it and with the others you will notice the Edirol's noisier preamps. Of course this is in direct comparison with the others. Nonetheless, it's a great recorder and many guys are using them with success.

Oade Brothers are really known for their mods and for what I read they do work. Shame that their export costs are so high for a guy like me living in Europe.

About your EX1, any of these recorders will beat EX1's preamps hands down.

Originally Posted by Stuart Graham

Dan Brockett: What if you do have a sound man, can you just use a sound recorder without a mixer? Will a mixer make any difference?

Yes it will. Remember everyone here saying that SD has the better preamps of the lot? SD mixers - for instance - are dedicated preamps, so you can imagine that SD has put all their experience and know how in those boxes!

In that respect, I'm a lucky guy. I have an SD 302 borrowed from the guy I told you in my previous post just because he has bought a newer model for him.
I have to say that the SD 302 in front of my Tascam makes a big difference, one that you will notice on every sound recorded. Even so because the Tascam preamps don't like 24bits a lot, and the SD in front makes all the difference preamping 24bit files.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Jacques Mersereau

THis is for Mr. Willett,

How do you like your Nagra VI? I saw it at NAB and am very interested in knowing how the mic preamps stack up against Sound Devices and THe Zaxcom Deva?

I hope to do a lot of nature audio recording and need the best possible pre amps to work with my neumann and schoeps mics.

The Nagre VI pre-amps are the best there are - they are superb - I would say certainly better than the SD (and still saying that the SD is an excellent machine and the SD better than the Deva). The ADC and DAC in the Nagra VI are also superb state-of-the art.

Nagra have been #1 in portables ever since Stefan Kudelski won the first ever International Recording Contest in 1952 with the very first Nagra recorder.

I am absolutely delighted with my Nagra VI - it was a lot of money for me as I'm only semi-pro and only use it in my spare time - but it was worth every penny and I like it more every time I use it. I have set it to automatically back-up to CF while recording, so at the end of the day I have a complete back-up of all the takes on a CF card that I can carry separately from the recorder.

I do mostly classical music recording and need the highest quality and quietest pre-amps available - these are already in the Nagra VI and I don't have to go out and buy esoteric expensive pre-amps as the Nagra ones are equal or better.

I did go for the high-capacity battery option, which will run the Nagra VI for 12-15 hours, so I can use it all day with no fear of the battery running out and I can then charge it overnight to be ready the next morning.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Mark Boyer

My vote is Fostex, I sold my Microtrack and moved up to the Fostex FR-2LE. You can hook it up to a external power supply and it has a better display. This recorder was made for field recording. Fostex is what the Pro Location Sound guys prefer.

Although the Fostex FR-2LE is an excellent little machine, it is not a patch on the Nagra LB or SD 702/722.

I reviewed the FR-2LE (and the original FR-2) for a broadcast magazine.

I actually bought the original FR-2 when it came out (though now upgraded to the Nagra VI).

My take on the FR-2LE was that it was excellent for the price and was the cheapest machine that I would call "professional". If this is all the money you have, then it's the best option.

If you can afford more, then the Nagra LB or SD 702/722 will pi** all over it.

[Dan Brockett]

Hi Stuart:

All of the sound mixers I work with already own mixers, most use the Sound Devices 442 and two of the main mixers I work with also use various SD recorders, one has the 744T and one has the new 788.

I own my own mixer but don't have an SD recorder, I have the Zoom H4N. My mixers mic preamps are of a superior quality to the ones in the H4N.

Do you have to use a mixer? Of course not. Will using a mixer help you to obtain better quality sound? Of course. Will using a mixer make a difference? Definitely.

Dan

[Stuart Graham]

Thanks Dan, I'll take your advice. I'm going to get a mixer rather than a recorder now, probably the SD Mix-PRE which looks pretty good from what I've read and it's a good budget(ish) price.

[Nelson Alexandre]

Originally Posted by John Willett

The Nagre VI pre-amps are the best there are...

They are really impressive but (and sorry if I'm not totally with you on this), the AATON Cantar has the best preamps of the lot, even better than Nagra's