1/8" Microphones & Long Runs at DVinfo.net

Paul Nuttall · October 5th, 2004, 12:52 AM

Hi all. I'm perplexed as to how to run the following shoot. I will be taping responses from participants during a sales seminar in a large conference room. Right now all I have is a AT857 shotgun mic (XLR) and a small Sony stereo mic with 1/8" output. I was going to add a couple of these Sony mics:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=150440&is=REG

Question is how would you record something like this (will be feeding to a GL2)?
And if the mics listed would work how far would an 1/8" mini plug cable work? I'm pretty sure my run could be up to 50' in this case. Would I need a pre-amp for those little Sony mics? I have a Samson Mixpad 4 that I was going to mix the various mics through but won't I still need a pre-amp/adapter something to get the 1/8" signal from the mic to the board?

Thanks is advance for your input!

Paul

Douglas Spotted Eagle · October 5th, 2004, 05:14 AM

Youll need to find a balancing device such as a direct box. Running 50" with an unbalanced line effectively guarantees huge amounts of interference.

Paul Nuttall · October 5th, 2004, 07:56 AM

So the 1/8" plug from the mic would go into the direct box first and then XLR from the DB to the mixer? I know these are elementary questions but I just want to make sure I'm doing this right. Thanks.

Paul

Paul Nuttall · October 5th, 2004, 11:50 AM

And will a "passive" direct box do the trick? Just using a female 1/8" (mics are terminated w/ male 1/8") to male 1/4" into the direct box then XLR is good for what length? 50'? 100'?

TIA.

Paul

Troy Tiscareno · October 6th, 2004, 04:31 PM

A balanced mic cable will be good for much longer than 100', so you're good there. A passive DI will be fine for that length. You'll also need to convert back to 1/8" to go into the camera, assuming you're recording the audio on the camera and not an outboard device. A BeachTek adapter is the common solution.

-Troy

Bryan Beasleigh · October 6th, 2004, 05:50 PM

I believe a balanced line can be up to 600 ft. With extreme distances you will have issues.

You can use a $40 impedance matching transformer or work your way up the foodchain as far as a stereo mixer.

The Shure A96f cheapo impedance matvhing xfmr

Beach Tek goodies all the way from basic to full blown

Beach DXA-8 review

Sound devices is really good stuff and runs from $300 to $4200 it's built with DV Audio in mind.

The Sound devices 302 as reviwed by John Garret

The PSC proMix3 as reviewed by Jay Rose (approx $500)

There are lesser costing items
Samson MixPad4 for $160

The Rolls MX54 as reviewed by Jay Rose (120)

I have the DXA-4, DXA-8, Sound Devices Mix Pre and the SD 302.
Beach Tek also sent me a DXA-10 to play with for a while (more on this one later).

If you have any questions don't be a stranger. Contact me here or bbeasleighat rogersdotcom

Paul Nuttall · October 6th, 2004, 08:38 PM

Thanks for all the links! Much appreciated. I am using a Samson MixPad4 for mixing. So this is the setup I will go with I think:
2- Sony Flat Mics (cheapo boundary omni mics) that are terminated with 1/8" jacks. One each placed on tables that participants will be sitting at to capture their responses.

I will run each of these into a Whirlwind passive direct box using 1/8" female to male 1/4".

From the direct boxes XLR approx. 50' each to the Samson MixPad.

Also will mix a wireless lavalier from main speaker.

From the MixPad I will merge the stereo output from the mixer into a single out using a Y cable and go into one channel on the GL2 MA300 because I want the onboard mic to capture ambient sound.

The MixPad has "balanced" 1/4" outputs, will I need a transformer to unbalance those before inputting into the cam? Or is balanced down to an 1/8" plug ok?

Does the use of only one input on the MA300 disable the onboard mic? I can't recall, I'll have to test it when I get home in the morning.

Thanks to all who responded, this forum rocks!

Paul

Paul Nuttall · October 6th, 2004, 08:55 PM

Correction to my last post- I will be going 1/4" "balanced" to the MA300 on the GL2 from the MixPad, not down to 1/8".

I'm thinking these are what I need to go from the MixPad to the MA300:

http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/STX-100M.html

to

http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/yxl-119.html

Anyone disagree?

Thanks.

Paul

October 5th, 2004, 12:52 AM	#1
Paul Nuttall New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 22	1/8" Microphones & Long Runs Hi all. I'm perplexed as to how to run the following shoot. I will be taping responses from participants during a sales seminar in a large conference room. Right now all I have is a AT857 shotgun mic (XLR) and a small Sony stereo mic with 1/8" output. I was going to add a couple of these Sony mics: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=150440&is=REG Question is how would you record something like this (will be feeding to a GL2)? And if the mics listed would work how far would an 1/8" mini plug cable work? I'm pretty sure my run could be up to 50' in this case. Would I need a pre-amp for those little Sony mics? I have a Samson Mixpad 4 that I was going to mix the various mics through but won't I still need a pre-amp/adapter something to get the 1/8" signal from the mic to the board? Thanks is advance for your input! Paul

October 5th, 2004, 05:14 AM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Youll need to find a balancing device such as a direct box. Running 50" with an unbalanced line effectively guarantees huge amounts of interference. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

October 6th, 2004, 05:50 PM	#6
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I believe a balanced line can be up to 600 ft. With extreme distances you will have issues. You can use a $40 impedance matching transformer or work your way up the foodchain as far as a stereo mixer. The Shure A96f cheapo impedance matvhing xfmr Beach Tek goodies all the way from basic to full blown Beach DXA-8 review Sound devices is really good stuff and runs from $300 to $4200 it's built with DV Audio in mind. The Sound devices 302 as reviwed by John Garret The PSC proMix3 as reviewed by Jay Rose (approx $500) There are lesser costing items Samson MixPad4 for $160 The Rolls MX54 as reviewed by Jay Rose (120) I have the DXA-4, DXA-8, Sound Devices Mix Pre and the SD 302. Beach Tek also sent me a DXA-10 to play with for a while (more on this one later). If you have any questions don't be a stranger. Contact me here or bbeasleighat rogersdotcom __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

October 5th, 2004, 07:56 AM	#3
Paul Nuttall New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 22	So the 1/8" plug from the mic would go into the direct box first and then XLR from the DB to the mixer? I know these are elementary questions but I just want to make sure I'm doing this right. Thanks. Paul

October 5th, 2004, 11:50 AM	#4
Paul Nuttall New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 22	And will a "passive" direct box do the trick? Just using a female 1/8" (mics are terminated w/ male 1/8") to male 1/4" into the direct box then XLR is good for what length? 50'? 100'? TIA. Paul

October 6th, 2004, 04:31 PM	#5
Troy Tiscareno Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 53	A balanced mic cable will be good for much longer than 100', so you're good there. A passive DI will be fine for that length. You'll also need to convert back to 1/8" to go into the camera, assuming you're recording the audio on the camera and not an outboard device. A BeachTek adapter is the common solution. -Troy

October 6th, 2004, 08:38 PM	#7
Paul Nuttall New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 22	Thanks for all the links! Much appreciated. I am using a Samson MixPad4 for mixing. So this is the setup I will go with I think: 2- Sony Flat Mics (cheapo boundary omni mics) that are terminated with 1/8" jacks. One each placed on tables that participants will be sitting at to capture their responses. I will run each of these into a Whirlwind passive direct box using 1/8" female to male 1/4". From the direct boxes XLR approx. 50' each to the Samson MixPad. Also will mix a wireless lavalier from main speaker. From the MixPad I will merge the stereo output from the mixer into a single out using a Y cable and go into one channel on the GL2 MA300 because I want the onboard mic to capture ambient sound. The MixPad has "balanced" 1/4" outputs, will I need a transformer to unbalance those before inputting into the cam? Or is balanced down to an 1/8" plug ok? Does the use of only one input on the MA300 disable the onboard mic? I can't recall, I'll have to test it when I get home in the morning. Thanks to all who responded, this forum rocks! Paul

October 6th, 2004, 08:55 PM	#8
Paul Nuttall New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 22	Correction to my last post- I will be going 1/4" "balanced" to the MA300 on the GL2 from the MixPad, not down to 1/8". I'm thinking these are what I need to go from the MixPad to the MA300: http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/STX-100M.html to http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/yxl-119.html Anyone disagree? Thanks. Paul