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-   -   AA Batteries (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/33593-aa-batteries.html)

Jonathan Gentry October 17th, 2004 08:34 PM

AA Batteries
 
What will drive my senn wireless lav mic's longer, Rechargable AA's or regular Energizer/Duracels?

-Jonathan

Douglas Spotted Eagle October 17th, 2004 08:38 PM

NEVER use rechargeables in a wireless system.
Go to Costco or Sams Club and buy the huge packages of 50 AA's. Cheap, and well worth it.
Some wireless systems won't warrant their gear if you use rechargeables.

Troy Tiscareno October 21st, 2004 08:44 PM

Not only can you use NiMH AA rechargables with the G2, Sennheiser even has recargable battery packs available for them (but why go proprietary?).

We aren't talking about NiCads here, which are obsolete. NiMH rechargables actually are capable of holding MORE power and sending MORE current than alkalines are. The only place I'd advise using something else is in extreme cold weather, where you're better off with lithium batteries that aren't as affected by it as either alkalines or NiMH.

Definitely get AT LEAST 1800 mAh batteries minimum. I believe the current top batteries are 2300 mAh, but it could be even higher now, as it seems to go up every few months.

I ran a pair of 2000 mAh batteries in my G2 lav transmitter for 6 straight hours and still had plenty of juice left (batt indicator was still full, and the batteries went into my cordless mouse, which ran for a week off the remaining charge).

Things change, DSE.

-Troy

Robert Mann Z. October 21st, 2004 11:47 PM

i'm with doug on this one, i have yet to use a rechargable i trust, they seem to die down pretty quick even though they down't completely die, nothing like the smell of fresh batteries...

Douglas Spotted Eagle October 22nd, 2004 12:15 AM

I realize the G2 allows hydride batteries. I've also experienced problems in 3 different venues with the G2. I'm amazingly unimpressed with this overhyped wireless.
Of course things change. I get more airtime out of my laptops than ever before, more airtime out of my com units than ever before, etc, etc. and those are all rechargeables.
If anything, I'm far from being a Luddite.
I stand by what I said earlier, some wireless companies will not warrant or support their systems if rechargeables are used.
If you want to take the risk of the batteries gaining memory, and they all do, or the leaks that rechargeables are often known for, go for it. Losing audio signal during a shoot is a little more traumatic than having my laptop battery die when flying.
On the other hand, I'll follow what has always worked for me, and is still the standard of large format production houses and broadcast stations. Alkaline.

Graham Bernard October 22nd, 2004 12:48 AM

I use rechargable AAs in my Mouse - PERIOD!

Bryan Beasleigh October 22nd, 2004 09:55 AM

I have about 100 or so AA cells on my shelf and they're cheap. I can't be bothered playing with rechargeables especially for what the disposable alkalines cost.

Jonathan Gentry November 1st, 2004 09:38 PM

OK... I'm adding up the post count tally on this issue and I guess I stick with my disposables. Thanks for the help. I recently saw the 2500mah rechargables and thought that was pretty strong though...

Vinny Osborne October 17th, 2005 06:01 PM

NiMH & Wireless (radio) microphones
 
I have done some extensive testing of NiMH batteries with Sennheiser, AKG & Sony wireless mic's. The results can be viewed on my website at http://www.soundandmusicco.com/nimh.htm

John Hartney October 18th, 2005 12:38 PM

I've been using NiMh in all my Sony wrt series wireless, Beyer U400 wireless, wendt mixers, HHB md500, etc... all my field production gear for several years. For me, it is an environmental matter, alkalines generate a lot of waste and should be dispossed of properly - to a hazardous waste company. NiMh chemistry is a green product.

I keep alkalines for backup in the kit, but have never gone to them.

Of course, batteries are removed and charged daily, but I'd be replacing alkalines, too. They have an in service date, device, and order number written on them and are rotated out before the charge drop gets to be an issue. I've had more problems with Durecell alkalines leaking than I've had with high quality NiMh cells.

Craig Terott October 18th, 2005 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle
I've also experienced problems in 3 different venues with the G2. I'm amazingly unimpressed with this overhyped wireless.

?

[slightly off subject] run-time problems? ...or other? Just currious because I've not heard too many critics with this piece of hardware.

Douglas Spotted Eagle October 18th, 2005 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Terott
?

[slightly off subject] run-time problems? ...or other? Just currious because I've not heard too many critics with this piece of hardware.

Wow! There is an old thread regurgitated. :-)

Before this system was released, there was a great number of anticipatory posts, so upon arrival at the DC Convention Center, and knowing that they'd just installed these, I was expecting great things. I couldn't even move halfway through an airwall with this system. As I'd mentioned in other posts, it might be that they hadn't set these up yet. Ironically, I'll be back in those same rooms in a couple weeks, I'll report again if anyone is interested.
Aside from the distance/interference problems, I also didn't care for the sound when levels were really pushed. I have a loud voice, and didn't care for the way the companding system reduced the bottom end and shrilled out the top end.

Dave Largent October 19th, 2005 04:18 AM

Lithium batteries last a lot longer than alkalines
and give about 1.7 or 1.8 volts. I used them in
a flash gun and it cut the recycle time in half
(15 seconds to 7 seconds) as compared to alkalines.

John Hartney October 21st, 2005 07:42 PM

"regurgitated" we'll never hear that used again referring to a question about audio related hardware... but sometimes, that's all a little eagle can digest, so it must be.

Douglas Spotted Eagle October 21st, 2005 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Hartney
"regurgitated" we'll never hear that used again referring to a question about audio related hardware... but sometimes, that's all a little eagle can digest, so it must be.

Did I miss something in this post John? This thread was 11 months old before it popped up again. "Regurgitated" would be the correct word for an old thread resurfacing, or maybe my English is weak?

John Hartney October 24th, 2005 12:01 AM

No, it is an old thread that's been brought back to life by someones need for information.

Your word choice had some humor in it, imho.

Main Entry:regurgitate
Pronunciation:(*)r*-*g*r-j*-*t*t
Function:verb
Inflected Form:-tated ; -tating
Etymology:Medieval Latin regurgitatus, past participle of regurgitare, from Latin re- + Late Latin gurgitare to engulf, from Latin gurgit-, gurges whirlpool more at VORACIOUS
Date:1653

intransitive senses : to become thrown or poured back
transitive senses : to throw or pour back or out from or as if from a cavity *regurgitate food* *memorized facts to regurgitate on the exam*


You're input to board users here and on the other sites you haunt, is always welcome and well informed.

Sometimes you have to feed info in small amounts to be understood, especially to newbies, hence the mother/baby bird metaphor.

Johan Bollen May 18th, 2007 08:22 AM

problem with rechargeable batteries
 
Talking about reviving an old thread. ĎAA batteriesí seems like an appropriate title for a post I would like to make. Maybe itís a little bit silly but something that happened yesterday got me worried about possible damage to equipment by AA batteries (or my use of them). I wanted to use rechargeable batteries (GP 2100 series NiMH AA 1.2V) with my SD 302 mixer, but the batteries where to wide and got stuck in the battery tube of the mixer, so I stripped them of their plastic jacket to get them in. Then I noticed that after 30 seconds or so the tube got very hot, and the batteries also. The battery light of the mixer was flashing although the batteries were recently charged and pushing the BATT button didnít give me any reading. I didnít give my time to check if the mixer was working properly. I got the batteries out quickly. After that I put in some disposable batteries in the mixer and everything seemed normal. I havenít used the rechargeable batteries on delicate equipment since, but I put them in a flashlight and they seem to work well. Iíve used these batteries (with their cover) on other equipment before and never had any problem. They worked and they fitted.

Is the tube on the 302 maybe to narrow? Is there a compatibility problem. The 302 manual states AA batteries can be used. Maybe stripping the batteries causes some kind of short circuitÖ Any explanations? Iím puzzled.

Johan

Abe Dolinger May 18th, 2007 10:15 AM

I'm interested to hear back on both of these issues . . I'd like to move to rechargeables for environmental reasons as well.

Doug, the G2 has done well for me in a bunch of places in NYC so far (where the original EW112 has failed) so I'm pretty happy with mine. Let us know how your test goes. (Also, the word you wanted might have been resuscitated, e.g. to bring back to life . .sorry, English enthusiast!)

Daniel Epstein May 18th, 2007 04:20 PM

I use external power from an Np-1 and hawkswood adapter to power both my mixer and wireless receivers. The cost to gear up that way is fairly high but it a very nice solution and long term the payback is pretty good. For transmitters I still tend to use alkalines or Lithiums.

Ben Winter May 18th, 2007 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy Tiscareno (Post 234976)
Not only can you use NiMH AA rechargables with the G2, Sennheiser even has recargable battery packs available for them (but why go proprietary?).

We aren't talking about NiCads here, which are obsolete. NiMH rechargables actually are capable of holding MORE power and sending MORE current than alkalines are. The only place I'd advise using something else is in extreme cold weather, where you're better off with lithium batteries that aren't as affected by it as either alkalines or NiMH.

Definitely get AT LEAST 1800 mAh batteries minimum. I believe the current top batteries are 2300 mAh, but it could be even higher now, as it seems to go up every few months.

I ran a pair of 2000 mAh batteries in my G2 lav transmitter for 6 straight hours and still had plenty of juice left (batt indicator was still full, and the batteries went into my cordless mouse, which ran for a week off the remaining charge).

Things change, DSE.

-Troy

I have a pair of 2500mAh AA's sitting here in front of me. Also, NiMH produce SMALLER current per cell, AA's for instance are 1.2v instead of its 1.5v alkaline brothers, which can introduce some issues in certain components.

Roger Shore May 18th, 2007 07:50 PM

One element that didn't exist when the thread was started, but might now make a difference to the comments --- http://www.eneloop.info/
In theory at least, a possible answer to the dilemma of disposable v. rechargeables?

Jon Goodman May 19th, 2007 06:07 AM

"NEVER use rechargeables in a wireless system.
Go to Costco or Sams Club and buy the huge packages of 50 AA's. Cheap, and well worth it.
Some wireless systems won't warrant their gear if you use rechargeables."

I bought some 9v rechargeable NiCads to use with a lectro system I recently purchased. Am I wrong in using them? Will they damage them in some way?

Jon Goodman

Eric Shepherd May 19th, 2007 07:27 AM

NiCad batteries don't have the long-lasting power of Alkalines, Lithiums or NiMH batteries.

You may be alright with them, depending on the drain of the device and how long you're running it. Some wireless devices I've worked with will run for hours and hours and barely use any battery power, while others, in the same show, will require swapping batteries after every performance. (All using brand new batteries).

I use the green rechargeable Energizer AA's with my Sennheiser G2's. I wanted to charge/drain the batteries down a few times before putting them into service, to get the full life out of them (according to the manual). So I put a pair in my transmitter and a pair in my receiver and turned them on overnight. They were running I believe it was 11 hours before I finally had enough and put them into a flashlight. :) I used the same 4 AA's in a fluorescent flashlight. It ran I think about 12 hours and didn't appear any dimmer than when I started. I think the batteries were down to 1.2 volts or something when I took them out.

For what it's worth, I've tested the voltages on many brand new alkaline 9V batteries, and Duracell consistently has a higher voltage, usually around 10.4 volts. Energizer is usually around 10 Volts, and the other brands, Ray-o-Vac, etc, are generally lower.

Hope this helps,
Eric

Chris Medico May 20th, 2007 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johan Bollen (Post 681567)
Talking about reviving an old thread. ĎAA batteriesí seems like an appropriate title for a post I would like to make. Maybe itís a little bit silly but something that happened yesterday got me worried about possible damage to equipment by AA batteries (or my use of them). I wanted to use rechargeable batteries (GP 2100 series NiMH AA 1.2V) with my SD 302 mixer, but the batteries where to wide and got stuck in the battery tube of the mixer, so I stripped them of their plastic jacket to get them in. Then I noticed that after 30 seconds or so the tube got very hot, and the batteries also. The battery light of the mixer was flashing although the batteries were recently charged and pushing the BATT button didnít give me any reading. I didnít give my time to check if the mixer was working properly. I got the batteries out quickly. After that I put in some disposable batteries in the mixer and everything seemed normal. I havenít used the rechargeable batteries on delicate equipment since, but I put them in a flashlight and they seem to work well. Iíve used these batteries (with their cover) on other equipment before and never had any problem. They worked and they fitted.

Is the tube on the 302 maybe to narrow? Is there a compatibility problem. The 302 manual states AA batteries can be used. Maybe stripping the batteries causes some kind of short circuitÖ Any explanations? Iím puzzled.

Johan

Hi Johan,

It is likely that the battery tube has a piece of metal running down it that is one of the conductors. When you took the shrink wrap off the batteries and put them in the tube it caused a short.

The lucky thing is you got them out before they went into thermal run-away. That would have destroyed the device they were in.

Some AA NiMH batts are slightly larger than the standard. They push the edge a little to gain some extra room for the higher capacity. I recommend you take some base measurements using batteries you know fit well and comparing it to what you can find online from other battery manufacturers.

I've considered using rechargeables in my wireless setup. So far the aggravation of trying to charge 10 AA batts at the same time on the road doesn't sound too appealing.

Also, NiMH batts have a very low internal resistance which is good for supplying current when needed but very bad for internally loosing charge. What this means is to get the actual stated capacity of the battery you have to use them right out of the charger. NiMH batts can loose 20% of their capacity in a couple of days sitting out of the charger and on the way to your shoot.

Chris

Steve House May 20th, 2007 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johan Bollen (Post 681567)
...I wanted to use rechargeable batteries (GP 2100 series NiMH AA 1.2V) with my SD 302 mixer, but the batteries where to wide and got stuck in the battery tube of the mixer, ...

Is the tube on the 302 maybe to narrow? Is there a compatibility problem. The 302 manual states AA batteries can be used. Maybe stripping the batteries causes some kind of short circuitÖ Any explanations? Iím puzzled.

Johan

Check the Sound Devices website - I seem to recall that they were having problems with stuck batteries in the tube due to it being slightly undersized and were offering to fit a replacement tube at no charge.

Raymond Toussaint May 20th, 2007 04:26 PM

Nimh batteries work fine in a G2 set, I use 2300mh , keep the same set in the loader and in the receiver /transmitter. So use batteries in pairs, mark them for that. Never had any problem doing so, use fresh loaded AA's (trickle-charge mode) the day before you use them. You can charge in your car too.
Environment is important enough.

Eric Shepherd May 20th, 2007 04:31 PM

Why same pairs? They should all get a full charge and be back to normal when recharged.

What's a loader? Or do you mean a charger?

The Energizer setup I have is nice. It was $30 at Costco and came with 6 AA's, 2 AAA's, a charger with an AC plug and a 12V lighter plug. Charges in 15 mins on either power. So you could get to a job with say 8 batteries fully charged and when the first 4 run down, swap them with the others, and charge all 4 back up in 15 mins. Then replace them 6 hours later when the others go dead finally. :)

Raymond Toussaint May 20th, 2007 05:01 PM

loader = charger (my bad)
I'll keep the batteries together -thats why I marked them- to prevent to mix up half charged and full batteries while changing sets in a car or in the dark. So I always charge and keep them together.

Eric Shepherd May 20th, 2007 07:14 PM

Ahh i got you. So not from a performance standpoint, but an organization standpoint. :)

Though I suppose you could do the same thing with 2 containers labeled 100% and 'to be charged', and then not have to keep track of individual batteries. But then you'd know if some start dropping in performance which ones they are.

Johan Bollen May 21st, 2007 09:06 AM

Quote:

The lucky thing is you got them out before they went into thermal run-away. That would have destroyed the device they were in.
Isn't it amazing that such professional equipment can be destroyed by such a silly thing? I didn't know the plastic on the batteries acomplished some function other than informative. There should be a big message on batteries "DANGER: don't take wrap off" or something like that. Don't you think?

Quote:

Check the Sound Devices website - I seem to recall that they were having problems with stuck batteries in the tube due to it being slightly undersized
I wrote sounddevices because I could't find the information you are refering to. I'm waiting for an answer? I don't like to change the battery compartment if there would be a simpler solution. Maybe I just had bad luck with extra thick batteries. Being somewhat isolated in La Paz I have to order by mail, so I need to know which rechargeable batteries will work before I order. I hope sounddevices can give me a list of models of AA batteries that do work with their equipment. Apparently it is not all AA batteries as their manual pretends.

Johan

Eric Shepherd May 21st, 2007 09:19 AM

Yeah the thick batteries can be a problem. In the fluourescent light i mentioned, I had to take it apart to get one of the 4 AA's out of it :( They're a little thicker than alkalines, and I think the battery slots are a little thinner than they should be on this light. Bad combination. But the light was probably $10 5 years ago, so it's not a big deal. But definitely something to keep in mind.

I don't imagine most manufacturers really know, so they may say "All AA's will fit" because they're just supposed to. :)

Steve House May 21st, 2007 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johan Bollen (Post 683059)
.... I hope sounddevices can give me a list of models of AA batteries that do work with their equipment. Apparently it is not all AA batteries as their manual pretends.

Johan

For what its worth, I've found the batteries with the power gauge strip down the side are slightly larger than standard and can get stuck in any number of devices. Had to toss out a laser pointer a while back due to stuck batteries caused by that problem.

Eric Shepherd May 21st, 2007 01:38 PM

Oh that stinks :(

I think Duracell has dropped the power gauge from their batteries. Or at least the ones at Costco anyway.

Johan Bollen May 21st, 2007 04:21 PM

I was lucky enough to get the batteries out of the 302 mixer. It could have been a lot worse and messier because I was just about to drill a hole in the batteries to get some grip on them while pulling them out. Shaking the mixer did the job but couldnít have been healthy for the mixer. Why did I have to force them in the first place, just because I thought they are supposed to fit?

Someone at Sound devices was so nice to answer my mail quickly. I wanted to share the information they gave me:

When using rechargeable batteries they recommend using the higher power type batteries of Energizer (2,500 mAh Nickel-Metal Hydrides).

Also there was never a battery tube modification in place for the 302 according to Sound Devices.

Johan

Steve House May 21st, 2007 04:38 PM

It may not have been the 302, perhaps my memory is faulty (happens a lot these days <grin>) but I know there was a battery sticking issue with one of their products, not sure if it was a mixer or a recorder, about a year ago. Be that as it may, my impression is that there are variations in the diameter of batteries depending on the manufacturer and type. Best bet is if you have to force it in, it don't fit. Or as they used to say back in engineering classes at university, "Don't force it, get a bigger hammer!"

Raymond Toussaint May 22nd, 2007 06:34 AM

13,5 hours
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Gentry (Post 233477)
What will drive my senn wireless lav mic's longer, Rechargable AA's or regular Energizer/Duracels?

-Jonathan

What's changed in a few years? :>]

To reply this: I tested my G2 Sennheiser set: with 2300 mAh NIMH rechargeable AA batteries, I run (during room temp) 13,5 hours continually before the transmitter stopped, the receiver had some power left.

Eric Shepherd May 22nd, 2007 08:46 AM

I did that too, just left them running. But then I wondered, with a louder signal being transmitted, would it draw more power? Like if you run a Walkman or something really loud, it won't run as long as with the volume low. Would it work any different with someone speaking/singing constantly into the mic vs just sitting on a table to test battery duration?

Just a thought. :)
Eric

Raymond Toussaint May 22nd, 2007 01:09 PM

Boy, what a questions...that's not something that keeps me out of my sleep.
;>} But it was recording with a microphone a loud signal from the tv speaker in another room!

Eric Shepherd May 22nd, 2007 01:11 PM

oh okay, well that would be the same then :)

i just had mine sitting here not near anything.. you figure over 10 hours or more, that it could make a difference, i dunno.. good to know though :)


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