lavalier confusion.. at DVinfo.net

Manus Sweeney · November 3rd, 2009, 11:13 AM

Hi,

I would like to buy a lavalier that i'll be using on a shoot in a couple of weeks but i'm getting pretty confused about what exactly I need.

I'm planning to record sound to the Zoom H4N which has phantom power.

I was interested in mics like the Sanken COS-11X/D, or the Tram TR50.

The Sanken comes in several versions, the one I was looking at was the PT (pigtail) version. To get this to the H4N I obviously need a connection (XLR?). What is the best option and how much does this cost, what should one look out for in terms of quality/price and also do I need a power supply? I understand phantom power is 48v and this mic can take upto 6v only??

I had a quote of almost 150 euros for this power supply which sounds a lot! Do lavaliers usually come standard with power / XLRs? And how about accessories??

If anybody can shed any light or has any suggestions I would be very happy, thanks!

Steve House · November 3rd, 2009, 11:47 AM

150 Euro for the Sanken power supply/XLR adapter is a little high but not unreasonable. It (or equivalent such as an Ambient Eumel) is absolutely required to power the mic. Why are you considering the pigtailed version? If you're going to use it hardwired, get the version that is already wired to the XLR phantom power supply - sells for about $425 US. By the time you get the pigtailed version wired up and ready to use you will have spent that much or more.

Manus Sweeney · November 3rd, 2009, 11:55 AM

it was actually 150 for the ps and another 40 or so for the xlr..

my question was a more general one really.. my experience with microphones (i studied sound engineering some years ago) has been you buy a mic which has an XLR on the end, you plug it into your device, you switch on phantom power if it requires it and leave it off if it doesnt..

the world of lavaliers seems different though, and was looking to see if there was anyone who could explain this to make my shopping a little easier..

cheers!

(ps the seller i found only had the PT version)

Jeffery Magat · November 3rd, 2009, 01:36 PM

Lavs only need 1.5V to 5V to operate.. 48V is too much. You need the XLR adapter barrel to convert that 48V down to the lav's operating level.

Steve House · November 3rd, 2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manus Sweeney

it was actually 150 for the ps and another 40 or so for the xlr..

my question was a more general one really.. my experience with microphones (i studied sound engineering some years ago) has been you buy a mic which has an XLR on the end, you plug it into your device, you switch on phantom power if it requires it and leave it off if it doesnt..

the world of lavaliers seems different though, and was looking to see if there was anyone who could explain this to make my shopping a little easier..

cheers!

(ps the seller i found only had the PT version)

Many (most?) lavs come in a variety of configurations depending on where they'll be used. The versions intended to be used hard-wired through an XLR cable either have a combination connector that includes a power supply to reduce phantom to the proper level or have a battery in the connector to provide mic power. Because lavs are so often used with wireless transmitters and the transmitters provide the 3 to 5 volts power the mics need, the mics are also available pre-wired with the connectors commonly used by the various popular wireless manufacturers. And the pig-tail versions are available for those cases where you need to "DIY" to use it with a wireless that doesn't have a pre-wired connector available.

Manus Sweeney · November 3rd, 2009, 02:47 PM

thanks guys..

i was getting a bit twitchy with time ticking on and just now bought a 2nd hand Sony ECM-77 on ebay..

SONY ECM-77 MICROPHONE XLR CONNECTOR, CLIP, WINDSCREEN - eBay Other, Wired Microphones, Microphones, Pro Audio Equipment, Musical Instruments. (Eindtijd 28-nov-09 20:30:01 CET)

hope it fits my needs!

Rick Reineke · November 3rd, 2009, 05:38 PM

It should. The ECM-77, 55, 44, ect. ect. ect. with the XLR power module, can be powered with a AA battery or Phantom Power. (battery removed)

Pete Cofrancesco · November 3rd, 2009, 09:20 PM

I like the AudioTechnica AT899

Allan Black · November 3rd, 2009, 09:35 PM

Manus, IMO the ECM-77 is the audio entry level lav in Sonys range, obviously pre-loved but a great price for a good choice nice going.
Cheers.

Jeff Kellam · November 3rd, 2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manus Sweeney

Hi,

I would like to buy a lavalier that i'll be using on a shoot in a couple of weeks but i'm getting pretty confused about what exactly I need.

I'm planning to record sound to the Zoom H4N which has phantom power.

I was interested in mics like the Sanken COS-11X/D, or the Tram TR50.

The Sanken comes in several versions, the one I was looking at was the PT (pigtail) version. To get this to the H4N I obviously need a connection (XLR?). What is the best option and how much does this cost, what should one look out for in terms of quality/price and also do I need a power supply? I understand phantom power is 48v and this mic can take upto 6v only??

I had a quote of almost 150 euros for this power supply which sounds a lot! Do lavaliers usually come standard with power / XLRs? And how about accessories??

If anybody can shed any light or has any suggestions I would be very happy, thanks!

I know you already bought a lav, but a few points.

1. Lavs work on "plug in power" off most recorders or transmitters. The H4N may also have this.

2. The COS11 is the television industries workhorse for a good reason, it sounds great.

3. Sanken will install any connector type you want same day of order and send it out. I can attest they have great service and know their stuff.

Manus Sweeney · November 4th, 2009, 02:07 AM

once again thanks for the tips and cheers allan for the reassurance about the sony!

for my next lav (if there is one) i'll consider the sanken but this time i think for the price payed i'll be happy with the sony..

November 3rd, 2009, 11:13 AM	#1
Manus Sweeney Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Amsterdam, NL Posts: 217	lavalier confusion.. Hi, I would like to buy a lavalier that i'll be using on a shoot in a couple of weeks but i'm getting pretty confused about what exactly I need. I'm planning to record sound to the Zoom H4N which has phantom power. I was interested in mics like the Sanken COS-11X/D, or the Tram TR50. The Sanken comes in several versions, the one I was looking at was the PT (pigtail) version. To get this to the H4N I obviously need a connection (XLR?). What is the best option and how much does this cost, what should one look out for in terms of quality/price and also do I need a power supply? I understand phantom power is 48v and this mic can take upto 6v only?? I had a quote of almost 150 euros for this power supply which sounds a lot! Do lavaliers usually come standard with power / XLRs? And how about accessories?? If anybody can shed any light or has any suggestions I would be very happy, thanks!

November 3rd, 2009, 11:47 AM	#2
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	150 Euro for the Sanken power supply/XLR adapter is a little high but not unreasonable. It (or equivalent such as an Ambient Eumel) is absolutely required to power the mic. Why are you considering the pigtailed version? If you're going to use it hardwired, get the version that is already wired to the XLR phantom power supply - sells for about $425 US. By the time you get the pigtailed version wired up and ready to use you will have spent that much or more. __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

November 3rd, 2009, 09:35 PM	#9
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,887	Manus, IMO the ECM-77 is the audio entry level lav in Sonys range, obviously pre-loved but a great price for a good choice nice going. Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

November 3rd, 2009, 11:55 AM	#3
Manus Sweeney Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Amsterdam, NL Posts: 217	it was actually 150 for the ps and another 40 or so for the xlr.. my question was a more general one really.. my experience with microphones (i studied sound engineering some years ago) has been you buy a mic which has an XLR on the end, you plug it into your device, you switch on phantom power if it requires it and leave it off if it doesnt.. the world of lavaliers seems different though, and was looking to see if there was anyone who could explain this to make my shopping a little easier.. cheers! (ps the seller i found only had the PT version)

November 3rd, 2009, 01:36 PM	#4
Jeffery Magat Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 186	Lavs only need 1.5V to 5V to operate.. 48V is too much. You need the XLR adapter barrel to convert that 48V down to the lav's operating level.

November 3rd, 2009, 02:47 PM	#6
Manus Sweeney Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Amsterdam, NL Posts: 217	thanks guys.. i was getting a bit twitchy with time ticking on and just now bought a 2nd hand Sony ECM-77 on ebay.. SONY ECM-77 MICROPHONE XLR CONNECTOR, CLIP, WINDSCREEN - eBay Other, Wired Microphones, Microphones, Pro Audio Equipment, Musical Instruments. (Eindtijd 28-nov-09 20:30:01 CET) hope it fits my needs!

November 3rd, 2009, 05:38 PM	#7
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,038	It should. The ECM-77, 55, 44, ect. ect. ect. with the XLR power module, can be powered with a AA battery or Phantom Power. (battery removed)

November 3rd, 2009, 09:20 PM	#8
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,995	I like the AudioTechnica AT899

November 4th, 2009, 02:07 AM	#11
Manus Sweeney Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Amsterdam, NL Posts: 217	once again thanks for the tips and cheers allan for the reassurance about the sony! for my next lav (if there is one) i'll consider the sanken but this time i think for the price payed i'll be happy with the sony..